New Comments : Government 2.0 Taskforce Suggestion Box

Comment by Jeff Granger (Space-Time Research)

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:19:38 PST

This site is now live at http://www5.transport.vic.gov.au/vista. It allows you to download data in csv format but does not include an API as such.

Comment by mlcinitaly

Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:56:35 PST

This idea is a most worthy one. The ACD resource is an excellent one and certainly a starting point to let parents know there are others who have travelled that road and where to get assistance.

Comment by jennyrollo

Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:09:34 PST

I have found this guide to be an invaluable resource for new families from NSW who contact our syndrome-specific suport group for help. I wish there was one available from every state in Australia so I could offer it to families across the country!

Comment by beryldyer

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:35:05 PST

If this info guide could contain information for parents/carers of adults with a disability, particularly in the area of supported living that would also be great

Comment by highperformance

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:24:26 PST

I know of an online magazine that has just started fundseeker.com.au that gives you this info. I contacted them to see what they can do for my nonprofit and got a great friendly response...the women also said they may make the mag free of charge to all nonprofits in December! Maybe the government can use this facility and save some money as well.

Comment by highperformance

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:18:17 PST

Checkout the Sunshine Coast Regional Council they have a fabulous booklet for their Nonprofits regarding venues etc. They were a benchmark council regarding what they are doing to help nonprofits in their community according to the Fund Seeker Sept issue (www.fundseeker.com.au)

Comment by mocklers

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:52:09 PST

The ACDNSW information guide is indeed an enlightened idea!
The feelings of frustration and confusion that face parents of disabled children looking for information can be overwhelming.
Years ago I remember thinking how wonderful it would be to have access to a comprehensive information guide.
This idea would definitely save the Government money and empower families!

Comment by robynhawke

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:10:01 PST

this is a wonderful idea as 22 years ago when our daughter was diagnosed with a disability it was pot luck as to what service you found to help you through all the confusion and the distress. This information at your fingertips would save a lot of time and frustration.

Comment by psinclair

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:43:36 PST

Thanks nicholas.
I would enjoy working on and implementing this idea even if not successful in gov2.0

Comment by john.p.harvey

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:52:20 PST

Thanks for that, Brad. It might be best if I could use terms that give a basic picture of what it's for than to try to convey in few words how this architecture works, especially before I understand it at all well myself.

Perhaps something like Government Process Watch, or Government Process Window, would convey it, without worrying the user about the back end.

I'll see what I can do to amend this.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:43:03 PST

SKOS (Simple Knowledge Organization System) is a W3C standard that allows you to describe abstract concepts in a way machines can understand. You would need to build a taxonomy of terms and synonyms about concepts which can be used to guide natural language searching.

Comment by Bill Coppinger

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:59:42 PST

Excellent idea. There are many orgs such as these [http://www.centralrangesllen.org.au/scan2008 ] that have local and national modelling of water and carbon costings [at LGA level] as part of detailed environmental scans [as does some LGA's etc]

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:10:04 PST

I use GovDex for a couple of projects, one being the work I am involved in with a group of motivated individuals undertaking revision of a national Standard for the assignment of street addresses.

Having EASY access (a simple online application and you are up and running) to a collaborative workspace, best of all FREE, with some controls for secure access, is a big winner for me. I do not completely love the Govdex Confluence wiki itself, personally finding the wikimedia product simpler, but the site has great technical and admin support. Three cheers also to the GovDex administrators for not being control freaks, they give a lot of control for each group to manage their membership, own space (limited gatekeeping).

The important aspect is having the shared workspace. This is key because otehrwise people in Local Govt, State Givt, Private sector, academia and Australian Govt cant ever access each other's systems and must resort to the unmanagable nighmare of email threads.

We still use some email, as some people prefer it, but the GovDex provides a record of the discussion and decision making process (help for continuity if someone new joins the disussion) and the repository for documentation and materials, and also that this material is a legacy for all participants for future use.

Now, if we can just reduce the number of logins to a proliferation of blogs, wikis, web mapping services, information sharing tools etc that would be great.

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:55:33 PST

To find out what emergencies or issues are happening in your area, or anywhere one might be heading, there are signs that, although it is currently completely unstructured, Twitter is evolving as a preliminary portal for agencies and organisations testing the waters and putting out 'feeds'.

I amy be dreaming, but perhaps this is very gradually getting some ESOs (Emergency Service Organisations) in Australia more comfortable with the idea of actually pushing out more information.

It also presents opportunities for innovators to extract, collate and present the live information in innovative ways (user driven).

This may in turn lead to discussions around what is actually useful to Tweet, and in what formats, and better structuring of the information, maybe even the evolution of de facto standards ?

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:44:47 PST

Hi, although I am Victoria Perhaps I can help point you in the direction of some resources in NSW.

You mention a list and map of all carparks, picnic areas, campsites and beach accesses. Assuming you are using GIS you are looking for geocoded data for these features.

I have previously sought data from NSW for our own emergency services (we respond over the border and also the Murray River) and did find some data maintained by Maritime NSW.

http://www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/publications/maps.html

I suggest you contact Maritime directly but proabably also contact the responsible authority in NSE, CS2i Common Spatial Information Initiative advertised as NSW's “one stop spatial information website” http://www.cs2i.nsw.gov.au/

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=CS2I&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryAU

as I brought the Maritime data sets to the attention of the CSi2 people in February this year. I am not sure but CSi2 may be a rebranding of what was previously EICU, the Department of Lands Emergency Information Coordination Unit (EICU) which "ensures that Emergency Service Organisations (ESOs) have the best spatial and related spatial data available to deal with multi agency emergencies, such as terrorism"
http://www.lands.nsw.gov.au/about_us/eicu

Maritime NSW DATA (this is anecdotal / imdicative information only so please check with Maritime directly)

1) a dataset called Nav_fac - point data - their facility points with features from Launching Ramps, Wharves, Fuelling points to advisory signage.
2) Parks - polygon data - generally various parks along the foreshore with a separate label for major National Parks or State Forests. These areas are generally a State Forest or such anyway.
3) Coast - polygon data - base information of the coastal foreshore and river banks. It can also include polygons of immediate adjoining areas such as beaches and mangroves. It originally came from digital data held by the NSW Water Resources Commission, however, it has been progressively updated with official Land Property Information Topographic data.
4) Depth - polygon data - Based on the coast layer is more relevant along the oceans and tidal rivers of NSW, indicating at best hydrographic (current and historical) contours and at worst navigable channels of no accurately known depth.
5) Annotation Coverage for text used on boating maps compiled from the official Topographic Map information and sometimes may include "local names" from other sources, such as additional Bend names etc.
6) Published maps such as boating maps, the water ski race operational maps and mooring zone maps.

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:12:07 PST

A recent experience at Wakefield Hospital in Adelaide SA with my elderly mother suggested that 'privacy' was used by a Doctor's nurse to avoid communicating with family.

After an ECG in the office, the Doctor, not her regular cardiologist, whisked Mum straight from his office into the hospital, telling her that he happened to have an opening to install a pacemaker. Fair enough. However, he did not understand what the ECG was telling him, nor did she understand the sudden urgency.

He and his nurse did not appear to have the time to patiently explain this to her in any terms that would offer reassurance. Their treatment was instaed patronizing and bordered on bullying. Then, no honest effort was made to contact any family on her behalf.

She phoned me from the hospital in a state of distress and anxiety, not understanding what the operation was about or why it was needed. She needed reassurance from someone she trusted, me, in terms that did not treat her like an idiot, or senile.

I could not offer this reassurance until I heard first hand exactly what had transpired in the doctors office, what the ECG had shown, and the exact reason for the operation. I reached the Doctor's own nurse on the phone. She was terse and refused to tell me anything about the operation they were about to wheel my mother into. She told me the Doctor would not speak to me claiming that my mother 'had not signed a next-of-kin form' (as it turned out, she had).

As my mother is in her late 80's, all I really wanted was to speak with the Doctor or his nurse to get a clearer understanding of the need for the operation, so that I could then reassure my mother. I reluctantly accept that this 'reassurance' is something Doctors (particularly specialists in a hospital setting, anyway) find a nuisance and do not feel they have time for.

However, if they dont have time to explain to an elderly patient, they could at least explain to a family member. Howver, instead of making an effort to engage family, what infuriated me was that the Doctor's nurse then attempted to use 'privacy' legislation as an excuse to refuse to tell me anything and effectively to remove the family from the decision-making.

This is abuse of intent of privacy and there need to be better safeguards to prevent Doctors or their overly officious or protective nurses from abusing the intent of 'privacy' to evade their natural obligations to the oberall well-being and emotional needs (trust and informed consent) of patients. Instead, privacy becomes an excuse to act soley in the interests of their own operational expediency, in an autocratic way.

A trusted relationship between Doctors, Nurses and the patient in the context of family is crucial to good outcomes. Family can help Doctors in this process. The nurses who worked for the Hospital were wonderful, by the way, and did their very best to help.

In the end because of mishandling of the family by the Doctor and more so his nurse (he still vigorously defended her actions afterwards) the operation was delayed by several days, she had an extra wait in hospital, a lot of extra costs borne by private insurance, and a change of Doctor. All avoidable if the Doctor an his nurse had not treated my mothers need for knowledge and reassurance and for family to be involved with such disdain in the very beginning.

By the way, Mum is doing well.

Comment by manager

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:53:54 PST

Check out www.necseniors.net.au Broadband for seniors. 2 computers plus broadband connection, desks and chairs included in grant. There are some limitations, check out Q&A section.

Comment by john.p.harvey

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:38:50 PST

Brad, thank you; you're right, database is a misnomer. I'm interested to understand the intent of your last sentence; could you expand upon it?

Comment by Brad Peterson

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:26:00 PST

Databases are just so last millennium.

A relational database doesn't represent knowledge very well and is only good at storing objects and relationships between them. This only works when you know in advance what objects and what relationships will be managed before you create the database. It is difficult, if not impossible, to create new times of relationships or add different types of objects once the database is created. Tech commentator Erin Jacobs said it was like deciding on all of your child's friends for life before you give birth.

What you describe is a knowledge base and is an ideal Semantic Web application built up with SKOS concepts.

Comment by dale.carroll

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:49:59 PST

SEHC = SouthEast Housing Co-operative 9706 8005.

Comment by john.p.harvey

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:48:09 PST

Thank you, Miriam; I thought I'd seen all the other proposals, but I may have missed that one. Yes, it and several others have elements of what I've proposed here, but seemingly without intent to make their proposals either a two-way street or a basis for accountability or transparency of decision-making. That's what underlies this proposal: access not just to what governments' decisions are -- which government bodies are usually prepared to announce, along with rationales -- but also, and crucially, how they actually arrived at them.

The next step, of enabling input into future decisions by the public, may be rather straightforward once the links are established between the central resource and the pending decisions of various government bodies and agencies.

Comment by jmuller2

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:20:21 PST

I'm VERY new to technology, so I'm not even sure how I am supposed to reply to Doug's question!
I can't give you a list of databases - but with all the research that has gone into childhood obesity, food intolerances, the relationship between food and behavioural disorders, etc, there has to be a lot out there. If that could be linked to young mums who register as single mums, or given the opportunity to register as mums needing support, or with databases of
children needing extra support, I'm sure it would become a gold mine

Comment by Miriam Lyons

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:59:48 PST

Interesting! I suspect that APO's proposed Policy Pedia project might end up having a lot of the features you're looking for here (see their submission at http://gov2.net.au/submissions/australian-policy-online/)

Comment by Nicholas Gruen

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:01:08 PST

A great proposal.

Comment by Nicholas Gruen

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:41:09 PST

Yet more data I hadn't thought about. Would be great to release it (unless I'm missing something!)

Comment by Brad Peterson

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:42:28 PST

How could Web 2.0 technology and PSI be used in this setting?

Comment by linda.budd

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:10:17 PST

Hi Doug

I don’t think there are any specific databases but we are thinking that there is information from numerous government departments (see list below) that has relevant information and specific policies that really influence a person with a disabilities life. This information is spread out over numerous websites, often hidden and would be great to get it in one spot. Also even within one government department there are numerous divisions that impact on the lives of people with disabilities.

This portal would focus on the range of influences a person with a disability life encompasses, rather than just the responsibility of the funder or the administrator just in relation to their disability.

Some of the government departments are:

VICTORIAN

- Department of human service
* disability, aged care, housing, health, youth

- Department of planning and local community
* Sport and recreation
* planning

- Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations

- Victorian department of transport

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS

* Department Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous
Affairs (FaHCSIA)

OTHER

- Australian human rights commission
- Victorian equal opportunity and human rights commission

Cheers, Linda

Comment by Miriam Lyons

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:48:27 PST

Good Company (http://www.goodcompany.com.au/) does something like what you're describing for linking corporate volunteers & NGOs, but does not have a volunteering database of general community members. Go Volunteer connects community volunteers with NGOs: http://www.govolunteer.com.au/

Comment by celine.mok

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:14:42 PST

Although at present there is a range of data available on voluntary work in the 2006 ABS GSS, more careful analysis and comparison of existing data sources at local, state and national level, or through new research on CALD volunteering could be expanded to explore the grey areas of the definition of volunteering.

Data sets could be developed and linked to governments' websites, key volunteering organisations, HACC organisations, Centrelink, Immigration, Multicultural Commission etc.

Understanding and measuring social inclusion is important in considering strategies and policies to support the participation and engagement of people in volunteering from CALD backgrounds. This also needs to be considered within the context of current government policies and the context of Australia's migration landscape.

The indicators used to measure social capital can be used if it was compared with other ABS data such as country of birth, language spoken at home etc. Comparison with data from surveys and research could also be used to identify how communities perceive their sense of connectedness and social capital over time. However, measures of social inclusion may need to target particular communities and be analysed at a local and regional level.

Comment by andrewrclark

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:27:23 PST

You may be interested in http://culturehunter.org/ an arts web site based in Newcastle.

andrew

Comment by rebecca1908

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:45:45 PST

This is a great idea, it makes for more sustainable communities; enriching communities and stengthening links for support, knowledge and relationships

Comment by annewarwick

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:22:35 PST

I think there are a range of government data bases, I am sure department of communities, education etc have lists of NGO's and other organisations who need support. Likewise I think within the business and public sector partnership arms there would be data bases. Actually, every arm of government would have a data base that may be linked. When Julie talk about an umbrella data base she is right. There must also be a way that government can encourage business to participate in some way with community and NGO areas that are not just financial...my thought was find a local business or organisation and have them adopt the NGO or community group and maybe participate in activities or allow volunteer staff hours rather than just money. Victoria is really good at this type of philanthropic activity, but it is not being done here. It has huge potential to get organisations and government working together to better communities and NGO's. I can se many uses for it......retirement villages working with disadvantaged you, or a small school....so much potential!

Comment by joanne.simon-davies

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:57:46 PST

The Office for Women created such a website about 5 years ago but it died in the ditch due to a number of reasons, but I always found the software difficult to use and it wasn't kept up-to-date. Now that the ABS has free data on their website the task would be much easier. There is state based sites similar to what you are suggesting as well. Promoting the site is so important so women know that it exists and therefore use it. Also don't just aim it at working women - older women and those women at home might find it useful as well.
Jo

Comment by Karen Chatfield

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:29:30 PST

Afternoon Doug, as a established organisation, we dont fit into alot of govt dept. funding bodies. It seems money is available to set up new ones but then all the old ones fold as funding is not available. It seems a shame, when all is set up and working and minimal is required to maintain these programs, that we dont seem to fit any criteria. The saying goes - 'why reinevent the wheel?' we have a good one going which needs assistance to continue - can you suggest where money would be available and thru what department as we have seemed to exhausted all avenues be can seem to find. Mind you we are not all submission writers. Perhaps funding for a regional writer for these submissions that could assist all groups in funding applications is what is needed. regards Karen

Comment by andrewrclark

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:17:42 PST

In NSW HSNET has been funded by NSW Government to do this task.

Comment by andrewrclark

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:53:16 PST

If you are an NGO in NSW you can use HSNET a free service for all human service agencies and NGOs funded by NSW Government.

It has an online directory services and offers free and secure email referrals as well as notice board and discussion boards.

Comment by dj

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:50:27 PST

Hi Celine
Are there any government datasets or databases you can think of that would help with developing your idea?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
Contest facilitators

Comment by dj

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:49:55 PST

Hi Kath
Are there any government datasets or databases you can think of that would help with developing your idea?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
Contest facilitators

Comment by andrewrclark

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:48:51 PST

While I like the idea of making ABS data more available, the premise of your argument that you have to "report to HACC on how culturally inclusive their services are to clients in their catchment" is wrong on two levels.

First as far as I am aware HACC services only have to report what CALD status there services users. Secondly I believe any government service must demonstrate how it is reaching out to all citizens within a local community. Equity is a not an additional cost as you say a "cannibalising" their government-funded and volunteer resources" its core business like providing food.

I do agree with your points about making information available, the irony is the government departments have spent money and time gathering this information to plan services, yet they don't want to give it to agencies to report against it.

Andrew

Comment by dj

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:48:45 PST

Hi Linda
Are there any government datasets or databases you can think of that would help with developing your idea?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
Contest facilitators

Comment by dj

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:47:23 PST

Hi Donna
Are there any government datasets or databases you can think of that would help with developing your idea?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
Contest facilitators

Comment by dj

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:46:04 PST

Hi rjsavage
Are there any government datasets or databases you can think of that would help with developing your idea?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
Contest facilitators

Comment by dj

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:42:39 PST

Hi jmuller2
Are there any government datasets or databases you can think of that would help with developing your idea?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
Contest facilitators

Comment by dj

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:41:11 PST

Hi Anne
Are there any governemnt datasets or databases you can think of that would help with developing your idea?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
Contest facilitators

Comment by dj

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:38:56 PST

Hi Karen
Great idea in general but the purpose of this contest is to find ways that nonprofits can use information currently held by governments to improve the outcomes for their stakeholders. Can you think of any ideas about how your group might use public sector information to improve your operations?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
Contest facilitators

Comment by brett-66

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:40:37 PST

This is a great opportunity for all members of Hervey Bay and surrounding area for learning and it caters for all ages with a range of learning activities.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:20:17 PST

The basic framework of such a portal can be applied to many other suggestions here, e.g. autism, cancer. This reinforces my suggestion of developing a generic support portal which can be adapted for any community.

Comment by Nicholas Gruen

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:29:21 PDT

www.netmums.com

Comment by heatherroby

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:05:33 PDT

Hi Karen.
I would love to connect with you about what you are doing. We have a very different demographic to you but your project sounds exciting.

Comment by cctf

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:34:01 PDT

Yes Yes Yes - this is exactly what we need for our community support!

Comment by cctf

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:33:15 PDT

As a community task force looking at ways to help our local community, this would be a great resource to give all those unsupported mums out there - but also all those who have not had healthy role models to learn from.

Comment by skgirdler

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:29:28 PDT

I'm a young mum who has had to learn how to feed kids with allergies - so not only what to feed them but how to cook it and how to do all that on a budget. I would have found something like this extremely helpful and the support would have made a big difference. In fact it still would.

Comment by acrighto

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:26:51 PDT

I agree - there seems to be a lot of people suggested similar projects. This would indicate that there is a real need to look at this problem creatively.

Comment by acrighto

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:25:06 PDT

As a young mum I certianly struggled with feelings of uncertainty and inadequacy. I think something like this would really fill and gap and could be expanded to offer a lot more support where needed.

Comment by jillmuller

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:07:26 PDT

This idea resonates with many of the other projects listed here - I'm not sure why it is rated so low. It seems many people see the need for Community services databases and making them better accessible by the community.

Comment by Karen Chatfield

Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:18:21 PDT

Been a long day - phone no is 07 4197 4660 and ask for karen

Comment by Karen Chatfield

Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:17:50 PDT

Please feel free to ring me at office 9 - 3 daily ( and we dont have daylight saving ) as we have been doing this for over 10 years. I might be able to help with ideas for set up and ongoing costs.

Comment by tmanera

Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:08:08 PDT

I hope you get through because at least it seems you had a clear idea what you want to do and you also have researched. Inlast three days there have been a number of ideas cropping up with large number of votes but without any thought provoking discussion or focus on use of government data.
Best of luck I can see that thi sidea ha spotential to be a good resource for communities around australia and if linked through migration website we can actually showcase the spirit of multiculturism to the world and those who want to come here.
Good luck

Comment by husaberg

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:51:49 PDT

excellent idea, we need to be encouraging women and their famililies to ask for what they want. Many women choose to birth in the private health care setting with an obstetrician as their carer because they believe they will get better care and be able to have the birth they wish for, however many of these settings have very high intervention rates. Most women do not need a obstetrician,who is, at the end of the day, a surgeon. Obstetricians should do what they are best at and care for women with high risk pregnancies. women should be able to access as much information as possible about their choice of carer and place of birth so that they can make an informed decision.

Comment by angelacullen

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:20:07 PDT

Of course!
It makes perfect sense!
Do it!

Comment by Brad Peterson

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:02:12 PDT

See my comments in the alcohol, cancer and autism suggestions about a generic site that can be adapted to support any community. "Create once, use many" is the ideal outcome.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:00:43 PDT

This is not too far removed from similar proposals for cancer and autism. I think this shows there is a need for a generic, adaptable "support" site that can be adapted for any community.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:58:50 PDT

CSIRO did some work on this with Surf Life Saving Victoria.

Comment by lmb1964

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:20:36 PDT

Without this service, people would not be able to learn the skills to keep in touch with family and friends who might be far away. The friendly caring group who teach, train and assist all of their clients, make a class which can be quite scary enjoyable. I hope the service finds funds to continue.

Comment by witchill

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:19:03 PDT

This would be marvellous! I work as a midwife in a public hospital setting, and I also teach ante-natal classes. I encourage women to put at least as much thought into their pregnancy and birthing experience,as they do into their weddings/hair/dietary input/clothing choices, as well as being pro-actively conscious consumers, making informed choices all the way.

Comment by julie.mundy

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 03:36:50 PDT

There already exists quite a number of these databases/organisations which link the two sectors together. eg Melbourne Cares, Pro Bono Australia, Australian Business Arts Foundation. However, sometimes the trick is knowing where to go/look for this. An umbrella/centralised database would be a good idea.

Comment by baylite

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:22:10 PDT

A service that is needed to continue, any help no matter how big or small would be appreciated by all of the community.

Comment by paulinesoxs

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:10:05 PDT

Hervey Bay is an ageing community and this service is invaluable in helping the elderly learn the skills required to keep us in touch with friends and relatives.

Comment by Karen Chatfield

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:18:06 PDT

We have had a online directory for all not for profits, schools, sporting groups etc for over 3 years. This allows them to create a account or claim a listing if one of my volunteers has entered their details. One problem was getting people to claim or take ownership of their listing to update details, phone numbers etc especially after for example a AGM, new committee new people. This year we are taking this to a new level and producing a 66 page book were all groups get a FREE printed listing - over 900 entries. Businesses have been offered advertising to cover printing costs and of course we have had great response from the council with all forms of information from them.

Comment by sianadoak

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 06:32:06 PDT

I think that this is an invaluable idea, with my experience as a student midwife being that many women coming into my health service have very little information about what is normal, what is reasonable and what their rights are. There is definitely an undeniable need for greater transparency in the maternity sector

Comment by susancclarke

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:13:29 PDT

Yes all australia should be covered. I reiterate, this is vital in the raising of awareness and thus enabling health inequalities for women to be addressed.

Comment by jocelyn.hansen

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:03:40 PDT

Yes we need this information to be shared very important.

Comment by mcleishs

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:58:56 PDT

What a great idea, although I believe that where the information is acce3ssessed by a NFP a concession should be available. So many of these studies are conducted by one department then reinvented and conducted by another. Sharing information between Government Departments is not well recognised but should be encouraged.
For NRM this would be particularly useful.

Comment by mcleishs

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:51:40 PDT

Excellent idea.

As a partner and carer of a profoundly deaf younger person I am constantly amazed at the lack of ammenity to allow for respite care for this category of disability.

Most believe that the coclear implant has done away with deafness in the young but this is not the case.

My friend who has a twenty something son with profound deafness is constantly dealing with the frustration of not being able to have a "break". For these category of disabled people, their parent or partner becomes their one conduit to the outside world and this becomes amplified, (as we both are), in A RURAL SETTING.

So I can but applaud the idea of this data base empathising with those in much greater need.
Well Done!

Comment by nurse

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:36:52 PDT

Working for a nfp that provides support and care at no cost, it would be most helpful to be able to access accurate and up to date information about local services. Frequently I waste time waiting for the right person to get back to me with information only to find that a particular service is no longer provided or that it is provided by someone else, somewhere else.

Comment by mctehan

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:11:06 PDT

Thank you for this excellent idea Diann. Creating appropriate links to your website would also spread the word - particularly with traditional male domains of enterprise e.g. Chambers of Commerce and Industry etc.

Mary Tehan

Comment by bryan.king

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:33:10 PDT

Well dot.georgiades, you don't need to worry about my "...ageist assumptions about persons 50+...", because the empirical evidence is pretty clear - just look @ the link I provided above - the oldies, as a group, don't get it, and they either need to retire or get educated.

And while we are dealing with assumptions, just because younger generations are using newer technologies more doesn't necessarily mean that they don't get out and about. In fact, the fastest growing relevant segment is in mobile computing.

So please, don't be in awe of the data - they tell us pretty clearly that there are generational issues at play here.

I find it striking (but not 'awe-worthy'!) that so many of the defensive comments on this post reflect an unwillingness on the part of the 'Oldies' to be taught anything - to learn, to grow as individuals. Instead, there is a thread running through many of the comments that just reinforces the point that learning is required.

Methinks the Oldies doth protest too much.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:16:42 PDT

The idea is not too different from the cancer and autism ideas. If there was a customisable framework available, it could be adapted for use by any support community.

Comment by Kath Mazzella

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:34:24 PDT

I totally agree with Diann re: data analysis - thus showing growth and advancement for women's achievements.

Something long overdue

Great I idea Diann

Kath Mazzella

Comment by glenda.briggs

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:21:10 PDT

The site has so much info its hard to pick or find things. No reference to Agriculture or Natural Resource management, just Science.

Comment by dot.georgiades

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:00:40 PDT

I cannot help but be awestruck at the proposer's ageist assumptions about persons 50+. As a 50+ individual, I was using a computer in my 20's - yes the very earliest versions (before www) but I learnt to actually use my brain to perform research. I remind this individual that the baby-boomer generation that he whimsically dismisses as 'closet luddites' is the generation that invented the computer.
The fact that many of my age group are not interested in playing computer games and such like - well I for one would rather engage in past times that involve getting out of a chair opr interacting with real people, e.g. playing sports or a good game of bridge/chess.

Comment by acar

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:19:45 PDT

A fantastic idea to combat the common misnomer that one size fits all. It most certainly doesn't. Just as we all come in different shapes and sizes, we all have a desire to seek and achieve the pregnancy and birth experience that fits with our personal, social, medical and political mores. A database would provide a preliminary shop of information that pregnant or prospective parents could use as a sound starting point.

Comment by gorrieje

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:52:11 PDT

Hi Meszaros,
When I have interacted with the medical system for myself or my family I have been appalled at times by their assumption that I can remember the information they verbally provide, regardless of the state I am in. My experience here as a first time, sleep deprived mother comes to mind here.

I think the information should be available to the public, not just health practitioners. I think the site
http://www.healthinsite.gov.au
is something along the lines you are thinking of. The issues with information sheets is keeping them up to date.
I think the healthinsite concept is to link to the specialists in their areas so the information is always current.
Practitioners then need to print off the latest information.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:41:56 PDT

The concept is not miles apart from the Central Cancer Support Website in this same category. Maybe there could be some development funding for a generic "support" site structure which can be adapted for any community (cancer, autism, diabetes, etc) and populated with crowdsourced content.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:37:03 PDT

There is a project at Monash University called Breast Cancer Knowledge Online which could be a useful model to expand on. Finding support organisations is only one problem, another is making sure all the information is up to date.

Comment by gordon.grace

Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:27:18 PDT

You may also be able to make use of the Australian Spatial Data Directory (ASDD):

http://www.agso.gov.au/asdd/

and the Office of Spatial Data Management (OSDM) Schedule:

http://spatial.osdm.gov.au/schedule/schedule_search.jsp

Comment by Zarrin Siddiqui

Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:17:38 PDT

I have been working on this idea and found that under National Names Index we can find information about all groups registered under Associations incorporated Act. Howver this governmenet set of data needs a bit of work and can be used to build up to connect communities. Does not tell which groups are active or dormant and some very preliminary details are missing soin conclusion the first block is already laid down in terms of data set.

Comment by tmanera

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:06:48 PDT

I would like all italian groups to be included in this database please.

Comment by silvia

Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:08:08 PDT

Hey Doug, everyone :)

I’m the Coordinator for communityNet (www.tricomm.org.au/communitynet), mentioned by Jane above.

http://www.community.gov.au/ is a really useful site but I see it as more of a directory than a news/information/resources site. What we are trying to do with communityNet is to fill the gap suside is talking about, at a regional level. We are NSW-focused, and within that, Greater Western Sydney focused, as that’s where we are located.

As an organisation we are resourcing mainly small to medium sized NGOs in the region particularly around the context of using ICTs as tools for sector communication, sharing and networking.

In our experience small/medium NGOs in the region (and I suspect this is true of small NGOs everywhere in Australia) have strong effective local networks, however government information at State and particularly Federal level (ie media releases, resources, initiatives, enquiries, publications, etc) does not always get filtered down to these local networks. Yet this information is essential as it will impact at a local level and needs to be disseminated amongst local networks for regional action/use/discussion.

The organisations we resource often don’t have the time/resources/knowledge to wade through the vast amounts of sector-related information released daily by local, state, federal governments/peaks/universities/media. Often they have to sift through loads of stuff that is of no importance to them to get to what they need to find/would like to know. It’s a waste of time and resources better spent on service delivery and organisational development.

That’s where a site like communityNet differs from community.gov.au and others. It is run by the sector for the sector, on a regional level by an organisation with strong local networks. I think it would be great for this type of resource to be funded regionally, as it has two sides: the “big picture” news that is useful across geographical areas/service types/client groups, and the more localised resources and news related to the needs and demographics of a particular region.

Silvia

Comment by Zarrin Siddiqui

Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:43:33 PDT

Hi Doug
Yes it is all about Connecting up Australia and I believe that once we get the ball rolling through we will find that actually we are all connected somehow through our community service contributions.
There are other community networks as well like Ethnic Communities Council of WA had a similar site supported by Office of Multicultural Interests. Network of Immigrant and Refugee Women of Australia (NIRWA) also building up a similar resource.
It is time to connect all of these so less duplication of work and effective utilisation of resources.

Reagrds
Zarrin

Comment by dj

Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:22:26 PDT

Hi suside
Although I think there are some similarities to Zarrin's Community Bush concept, I also think there is a difference. I don't know if you've ever come across http://www.community.gov.au/ but is what you had in mind similar to that site or something different? What sort of government information would you want to have available in developing your idea?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
(Contest facilitators)

Comment by dj

Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:14:54 PDT

Hi Zarrin and other contributors
Great to see others building on this idea, including noting other community sources. However, given the nature of this competition, it would be really helpful if people could keep adding to the government information resources that would help make this concept grow.
And regarding your suggestion for a better name for the project, Zarrin, I seem to have seen something like that somewhere else :-)
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
(Contest facilitators)

Comment by Zarrin Siddiqui

Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:00:32 PDT

When i thought of this idea my basic assumption was that though we may live within our own community's shell we all are connected somehow though these networks. For example I work with about 5 organisations and am connected to around say 500 members who again are connected through some other networks and this keeps on growing bigger and bigger.

So all these communties and groups at state level share information with each other creating a community bush and then within their own state they use a top down approach which connect their members to each other through collaborations and communication may be I should change the title to Connect Australia or triple C Australia i.e. Connect, Communicate and Collaborate Australia

Comment by evitaau

Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:28:14 PDT

Hi Jane
The community net is very much focussed towards NSW and looks this person want it Australiawide

Comment by dani

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:41:51 PDT

Just thought of one other thing...every time you make a payment to or receive money from Govt through your single busnow account with government - (all three levels), it automatically sends an updated entry to the MYOB file on your desk top. After you enter the password, the MYOB file is updated with the entry....you then save and log off the MYOB file...

Comment by dani

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:38:03 PDT

I think these are great ideas, but think about how this could be applied to small/medium business owners. It is like that just such an initiative would have a significant impact on reducing 'red tape"!!

** The vision **
It’s Monday morning, and you’re checking your email at the office. You've got a notice a message from busnow.gov.au, telling you that you have three new notifications and a reminder in your busnow in-tray. You click the link at the bottom of the email and your browser opens up, taking you to the busnow.gov.au login page.

Once you’ve signed in, you scan the four new messages. There’s a reminder about submitting your BAS, which needs to be submitted in two weeks time. You click on the “Download BAS” button. You click on 'Diary entry' and the diary on your desktop comes up with a prompt "When would you like to work on your BAS? You will need to set aside 30 minutes (the time taken to complete your BAS online last time". You find a free slot in your diary later in the day and click enter.

While the BAS form is downloading, you archive the message and open the next one. It's from the EPA. Your licence for an approved environmental activity is due next month. The message asks you if anything has changed with respect to your business over the last two years (last time the licence was renewed). You need to supply them with an updated business address. It seems that they tried to send out an inspector and your business had relocated. You decide to authorise the EPA so that they can use the address information you entered on your busnow.gov.au profile from now on. It’s as simple as clicking the “Authorise EPA to use your profile address” button at the bottom of the message. A little green tick appears next to the message header – meaning "task complete". The EPA generates a message with an estimated licence fee and due date for payment. Your diary is pulled up and you click on the due date to remind you to get a final amount and pay. Next time you log in, all the paper work will be safely archived in your "Pending" tray.

The next message is your personalized weekly calendar. You subscribed to notifications about upcoming information sessions concerning workplace health and safety issues. It turns out that next Tuesday, there’s going to be a webcast for small businesses disposing of trade waste. You review the content and then check the “Remind me 24 hours before” checkbox before archiving the message. You also invite your officer manager to log into the same session.

The next message is from AusTenders updating you on how the selection panel is progressing with a proposal which you lodged electronically six weeks ago. They ask you for authorisiation to check the status of your company insurances online (PI, Prof In and Workcover). You click authorisation and a confirmation is sent to your business account. AusTender also indicates that there are two more tenders which you might be interested in looking at....but no - not for us.

The final message is from Workcover, about a staff member's claim about your business. You consider filling in the online dispute form – you’re sure that you have done the right thing by your staff…but then you click through to the regulatory requirements for your industry and see that you company has missed a basic requirement. With a grimace, you authorize payment using the business credit card information from your business profile. The little green tick assures you that you’re all done. A few seconds later, you receive a tax receipt in your in-tray, along with an invitation from Workcover to attend an upcoming online training session and links to key regulatory information for business (just like yours).

At the end of the day, after you have calculated your tax payment for your BAS, you click the "Pay BAS now" icon and your electronic banking account appears. You log in and authorise eft for your BAS payment on the due date...phew, another thing you don't have to worry about...

You sign off, finish your coffee, and think how much easier it is to do business with Government now than it was ten years ago....so much has changed...

Comment by dani

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:29:14 PDT

Comment by peter.wlsn

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:16:21 PDT

Thanks, how about the following?

[Input]
The tenants need to know their rights under the Act to make informed decisions. The tenants need to be informed of what’s available in terms of transfer, rental support, cultural appropriate, social allocations, cheaper options and etc. The tenants need to exercise their right as a community.

[Output]
When tenants feel responsible, they begin to gather a community conscious awareness. This community awareness embodies a sense of belonging and tenants shall begin to look after their homes, their tenancies, and their community. It is the presence of this conscious awareness that young people look up to and obviously might think twice about creating havoc in the neighbourhood.

[Outcome]
Tenants journeyed from isolation in tenancies to members of a community in their homes. Informed and responsible tenants will not only reduce violence and crime in the community, but would also add value to the commercial assets of the area and their property.

[Impact]
Children brought up not in dependent but in responsible environments are sure to become more productive members of future society.

Comment by Nicholas Gruen

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:01:00 PDT

Strikes me as an excellent idea.

Comment by Nicholas Gruen

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:51:19 PDT

Thanks for this Peter, but it's not a very specific proposal. I think you should set out an example of the kind of thing you'd like to see happen and what improved outcome it might lead to and why.

Comment by lisa

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:53:29 PDT

Hi Miriam,

Not only would it create transparency in policy but it would enable individuals, organisations and business to have much easier access to what is available.

Comment by jane

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:26:17 PDT

There is already a NSW website available which is maintained by a not for profit organisation, TRI Community Exchange, www.tricomm.org.au/communitynet.

communityNet is a news, information and resources website for the community sector to share news and resources as well as information about upcoming events, conferences, seminars and workshops, training, funding, employment vacancies and web links.

Interagencies and other community groups can also store their documents such as minutes and agendas in communityNet's download section.

TRI Community Exchange is currently seeking government funding for this website.

Comment by jane

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:23:33 PDT

There is already a website available which is maintained by a not for profit organisation, TRI Community Exchange, www.tricomm.org.au/communitynet.

communityNet is a news, information and resources website for the community sector to share news and resources as well as information about upcoming events, conferences, seminars and workshops, training, funding, employment vacancies and web links.

Interagencies and other community groups can also store their documents such as minutes and agendas in communityNet's download section.

TRI Community Exchange is currently seeking government funding for this website.

Comment by mmcc

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:55:37 PDT

I think this is what the objective of the new National Emergency Alert System is, due to be rolled out shortly in all States except WA. In WA, they have their own system.
In our area, we have a local "Telephone Tree" (www.mepcc.org.au) and are considering using the Early Warning Network (www.ewn.com.au) as a community group. The EWN enables much quicker communication using multi-channels.
The problem is getting the data, and you can see more information about this here http://www.gov2taskforce.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/17664-5361. Perhaps the idea should have been posted in this category?!

Comment by dj

Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:10:51 PDT

Hi meszaros
Interesting idea. Could you add some thoughts about information held by governments that would assist in making this a better resource. What information do governments have, or you think they might have, that would be helpful in this area?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
(Contest facilitators)

Comment by dj

Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:08:45 PDT

Hi Irmck73
Interesting idea. Could you add some thoughts about information held by governments that would assist in making this a better resource. What information do governments have, or you think they might have, that would be helpful in this area?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
(Contest facilitators)

Comment by rida92

Sun, 18 Oct 2009 07:18:00 PDT

This is same a sthe first one buildinga community bush so why do not you join hands.

Comment by Miriam Lyons

Sun, 18 Oct 2009 06:08:46 PDT

This would also be handy to have in an accessible & reusable format: http://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/stats-pubs/composition_trade.html

Comment by simonfj

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:06:53 PDT

Can I be explicit, because the agimo team has been doing as good job in pioneering what we're discussing on this thread.

They started with a blog.
Then they used this idealscale (stolen from obama's team, but attracting people who are noticebly more polite). Perhaps it could be massaged into Dell's approach http://www.ideastorm.com/ideaTopContributors?pt=Top%20Idea%20Contributors

The next step, if we follow the usual community growth path, would be a wiki. It would be nice if the guys from wikimedia aus were bought in here, as the main software guy, Tim Starling, lives with WMF's co-founder in Hornsby (syd). Wikipedia is going through this attempt at new governance too you know, so it would be nice to see us helping the yanks out.

The next step after that will be a more inclusive forum, preferably run by a few moderators from different agencies, like whirlpool do (don't like the interface, but the guys at sitepoint might come up with something special, if asked. They're in Mel)

And lastly, when all the stuff is spread around the place, and things fragment around a bunch of domains, cause every agency will start doing a copycat, everyone will start talking about a SSO. Then we'll have to begin to reinvent the wheel, together.

Comment by simonfj

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:41:13 PDT

Hey!

Now you're talking about getting a wole range of committees to talk to one another. I could point at so many different railway gauges, all chuggin along their own tracks. Here's a few.
http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/better-practice-and-collaboration/agimo-discussion-lists.html

here a a few others who like to think they are setting the agenda. http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/strategy-and-governance/index.html

Here's how they think. https://www.govdex.gov.au/confluence/display/CGS/Collaborative+Government+Suite

And lastly, if you want to see the culture they work in, look at the bottom of this page. https://www.govdex.gov.au/confluence/display/GovDexHelpSupport/Scope+of+the+GovDex+Service

quite sad really, no? What was that you said about "improving access" to .... partcipation in social media". Oh yeah, OPEN.

Comment by simonfj

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:20:57 PDT

Hey Peter (Alexander).

Isn't this one for the australia.gov.au designers?

Not sure how it would be complied; a link t.o.p. to a "compile your own" Gazette?

Comment by simonfj

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:15:41 PDT

So important. And not just for one parliament, but the others as well, preferably in the one spot.
See notes on http://gov2taskforce.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/17384-5361

The other important part is having the two houses institute share 'subject centric' committees. Scotland and NZ are down the track here, and England's might get there shortly. Then we can expect that our Australian institutions will do like they always do; copy someone else.

Comment by simonfj

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:10:01 PDT

with a (20 year old) nephew with autism my heart goes out to you. "They can learn anything they just do it in a different way". The same can be said of non profit carers in many other areas. The problem, we both know, is the fragmentation in this country, usually because everything gets funded all over the place and then 'a service is delivered'. Welcome to Australia.

Government (whichever of the 3) can't help you here. They are simply too busy delivering what they believe is a great service, incredibly efficiently of course. In NSW, my nephew has some terrific support, a pretty good social life, and his parents get respite from time to time, through a range of agencies (not sure who they are).

But if you want to create a National autism register, you'll have to find the state and local agencies responsible for their local database. Putting them all together is pretty simply, and government might help with funding. It's overcoming the closed culture which is the hard bit. For that, you'll have to go through a thousand large fish in some very small ponds. Good luck!

Comment by simonfj

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:52:04 PDT

Why don't you tell them?
http://forums.pmc.gov.au/

Comment by simonfj

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:50:26 PDT

You should be aware that aph is going through a revamp. It's still early days, but hopefully the agimo guys will be aggregating all these kinds of suggestions, so roxanne doesn't get overloaded. http://vimeo.com/5331737

I'l mention one thing which is going to so important with helping them get their network organized so that it can handle both the broadcast of past sessions as well as the capture of live sessions as they occur.

There's quite a lot of work going on in this space. This is the t.o.p. in the edu area. http://www.opencastproject.org/project/matterhorn
The demands for just doing this "in house(s)" are very different than when committees go on the road, or want to stream live to (say) the a-pac cable channel. And the place where the archive will be kept is going to place new (and large) demands on their servers. They will, for example, have to consider whether they keep it at a place like http://pandora.nla.gov.au/about.html > so they can become "historical".

Hopefully these considerations will be made before the aph "website" is rejiggered. because it's getting boring watching all the discussion about web2-whatever, while the primary factor (the network in which a IP address sits) is never mentioned.

Comment by simonfj

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:34:39 PDT

I think we'll find out that some of the ideas revolving around myaccount.humanservices.gov.au
(see http://www.australia.gov.au/about/whats-new) might eventually get down to this. I have the original tender docs from peter alexander, which don't really address how it will have AGOSP become user centric (the tender docs are really written as agency centric). But as the agimo team get their confidence, and begin to think like citizens rather than bureaucrats, it'll become a natural progression (I think).

Comment by Zarrin Siddiqui

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:31:21 PDT

Hi Doug
Most of these groups are registered through Associations Incorporated Act 1987 and information can be extracted from that reosurce. Similarly there are major federations who have got numerous affiliated organisations but there are more who are working like student groups etc. not for profit etc.etc and even among NGOs there is sometime lack of awareness on what is happening. This BUSH can be used for creating linkages across groups within state and interstate.disseminating best practices in this sector and sharing news about upcoming events and opportunities for fundings.

Comment by openid

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:34:45 PDT

Craig,

Government has in the past created its own TV channels and they have been successful in their own rights - though mostly starved because of lack of content productions. Now, a video.gov.au site would not starve of that, because it does not have to create new content all the time. But it does create a sort of TV channel into government with a completely different way of accessing the data of government. And that is what Gov 2.0 is also about: making data/information accessible in a new way.

Comment by stonestacy4

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:05:36 PDT

Government-funded film production does not produce government owned films. In fact government film funding agencies expect film producers to commercially exploit the work as fully as possible.

Films produced not for commercial consumption, but for the public record still often have underlying rights or ethical sensitivities that restrict publication.

australianscreen does not deliberately or arbitrarily restrict license terms and conditions. australianscreen does not own any of the material on the website. It must negotiate permission for each and every clip that is published. It publishes material as liberally as rights holders (whether that is a commercial production company or a government archive) will allow.

It is a recent and a significant cultural u-turn for government agencies to review their holdings in the 'open access' light. It is a complex and resource intensive exercise. It is not going to happen overnight but it is happening.

Comment by dj

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:58:26 PDT

Hi Zarrin
Interesting idea. Could you add some thoughts about information held by governments would assist in making this a better resource. What information do governments have, or you think they might have, that would be helpful in this area?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
(Contest facilitators)

Comment by dj

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:55:52 PDT

Hi Bernadette
Sounds like a good idea and, to build on it, what we are looking for here is ideas about what information held by governments would assist in making this a better resource. What information do governments have, or you think they might have, that would be helpful in this area?
Regards
Doug Jacquier
Connecting Up Australia
(Contest facilitators)

Comment by andrew.harvey4

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:14:25 PDT

...and people should be able to easily download these videos to their computer in an free format.

Comment by openid

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:06:11 PDT

I'm not sure if this is possible a duplicate of #43, which discussed historical australian footage. Certainly, if they get deleted after a month, the parliamentary videos will never get to become "historical" ;)

Comment by openid

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:05:18 PDT

Interestingly idea #115 - http://ideascale.com/r/17384-5361 - mentions another useful sort of government-created video that it would be nice foe the public to own - video of question time and other parliamentary business. That could come in very handy.

Comment by openid

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:14:04 PDT

They do indeed. Unlike, say, the ABS, however, the materials there are not free for use: http://australianscreen.com.au/about/terms/
---
You may retrieve materials for information only.
You may save, copy, print, distribute or download for your own personal use or for non-commercial educational purposes only. Commercial exploitation of materials on this website is prohibited.
The National Film and Sound Archive’s permission must be sought to amend any information in the materials, unless otherwise stated in notices throughout the Site.
---
That seems to prohibit remixing, editing to appear in soundtracks, lecture slides, parodies, collages...

So australian screen is awesome in that it lets us watch more of our own heritage (usually only small extracts, but it's a start). However if we want their data to be truly open, we also want to have the rights to actually *use* the films, rather than just watch them unaltered in the privacy of our home. Especially where many of the films are wholly is tax-payer funded, that seems unfortunate.

Comment by Andrew Lawrence

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:58:53 PDT

The National Film and Sound Archive runs the website australianscreen online (australianscreen.com.au)) which contains over 3000 video clips from the 1374 titles listed on the site.

australianscreen is a partnership between NFSA, broadcasters (ABC & SBS) and other cultural institutions (National Archives, AIATSIS)so it aims to put audiovisusal cultural heritage on the web with contextual curated notes.

Comment by Nicholas Gruen

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:39:09 PDT

Thx for that. A very interesting idea. But don't call us dj, we'll call you.

Comment by rossthepoolman

Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:56:17 PDT

I want to give POOL the big THUMBS UP, as this collaborative of creative "POOLIES" is simply first class.
The interaction between contributors and "Pool Attendants" is brilliant and my work and its exposure from being involved with "Pool" has been nothing short of phenomenal.

Comment by Miriam Lyons

Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:38:52 PDT

Oops, I just posted the same idea at http://gov2taskforce.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/16955-5361 before I spotted this. I think ideascale lets moderators merge ideas - hopefully they'll intervene.

Anyway, this seems like a no-brainer - it would find a pretty big user base straight away I reckon.

Comment by Darren M.

Sun, 04 Oct 2009 06:41:36 PDT

@neil.henderson Thanks :) I suspect that the driver agency would need to be a central agency that is very influential. So my vote would be evenly split between Finance (to ensure quality investment decisions and benefit realisation) or PM&C.

The idea of a Gov2.0 agency is very tempting though - perhaps an Office of Government 2.0, forming part of a central agency and closely coordinated with AGIMO, who could ensure that the enabler standards and frameworks are in place to support the program??

Comment by neil.henderson

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:25:38 PDT

Totally agree - like the way you have used scenarios to describe what is needed. Which agency do we assign this project to? The new Gov 2.0 agency?

Comment by James Purser

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 05:42:52 PDT

Hi David,

To be honest, I've been toying with building such a service here. I haven't done much in terms of advocation but I have been exploring various options.

I think it might be useful for us to compare notes on this.

Comment by Peter Ross

Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:04:27 PDT

Totally agree.

The situation I described mybenefits.gov.au should sit on top of this system. As you answer the details provided by the mybenefits.gov.au system it saves the answers in your allaboutme.gov.au profile. You can then choose which government departments have access to your details so that they can provide other services to you.

Comment by david

Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:25:27 PDT

James - this is a great idea.

There is, frequently, a ton of code that government creates in house and that different departments/ministries are essentially recreating over and over again. Making a GovForge (or potentially better a GovHub) could provide a lot of savings.

Indeed, here in Canada, I've been advocating for such a thing not only at the federal level but, more importantly, at the local level. There are thousands of small communities with very limited IT budgets that are re-creating (or purchasing) the same software package over and over. Apply a GPL license and having a GovHub would essentially create one large networked IT dept out of the scattered and small local IT departments across Australia.

Comment by andrewj

Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:39:57 PDT

I love this forum - it's great to be able to chat with and interact with senior ATO officers, and know they're actually listening.

Comment by cscoxk

Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:47:06 PDT

Andrew,

Rules can be set as to where data is physically stored and if there is a high security reason then of course commercial organisations may not be used.

Brad

Our organisation would never go back to storing our own data on our own facilities. The reason is that a commercial organisation dedicated to this task will do a better cheaper job than we can (In our case we reduced our costs to 10% of the cost before moving). There may be some cases where it may appear to be necessary for the government to store the data but that should not be the default position. Organisations that are dedicated to this task can do the job much better than other organisations and the government should be as efficient as possible.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:49:47 PDT

I disagree that government data should be stored on commercially operated facilities by default. There is no reason a physically owned and operated government facility cannot take advantage of economies of scale and use the latest technologies, plus there are valid security and privacy concerns about data going offshore.

It is also debatable whether a commercially operated facilities can really do it cheaper (while making a profit) than simply putting the technical expertise on the APS payroll and doing it in house.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:56:56 PDT

Let's not forget the hundreds of documentaries made by the Australian National Film Board/Commonwealth Film Unit/Film Australia. Some of them won international film awards.

A "GovTube" or similar seems the most sensible option rather than using a commercial overseas site like YouTube or Google Video. As well as a place for agencies to share historical films and sound recordings, it could also host current information films, speeches, etc for embedding in agency web sites.

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:38:56 PDT

Privacy: On the topic of privacy of address data, an address by itself is mereely a "FACT" and only becomes private when something private is attached to it. If I was to publish a raw data set with all the police calls for family violence with the address for each record, that is a clear and aggregious violation of privacy.

However, information on the geographic distribution of family violence is potentially important public information, particularly if combined with information about governmnet excpenditure, demographics, welfare and other resources.

So, should I let government decide how to aggregate this information and to tell (spin?) its own version of the story, or isn't it better to modify the raw data and relaese it without the addresses, but with useful levels of geographic attribution. For example, each reacord could be released, with the address removed but instead geographic polygon boundery attributes at as fine a grain as possible (eg an overlay of a 500 m grid, census ccd's or meshblocks, locality. This requires rigour and various techniques (eg partial record suppression) to ensure that the combinations of data released will not allow unscrupulous reaggregators to derive address.

I am by no means up on all this, but in 1999 when I was studying in the USA (Carnegie Mellon University, Heinz School of Public Policy) I attended a number of presentations by academics doing some remarkable work in exactly this field. It is now ten years later, I doubt we'd have to reinvent the wheel.

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:24:05 PDT

Comment on discussion around addresses. Valid addresses are critical to emergency services, but not all addresses are not created equal. We must have authoritative national single source data for address, and all government organizations should enure address data validated against this data at point of all forms of online data entry.

It is not only about a single address file, but also getting people to actually know and to use their correct address. Just because your mail is delivered, or Telstra hooks up your phone, or your drivers licence is issued does not actually mean that you are using your correct address. All of these organizations have 'work arounds' to accommodate a long legacy of poor practice in address assignment (done in various ways by Councils) and address data management nationally.

Now, with, for example, Computer Aided Dispatch systems and increasing need for data integration from various sources the implications of address data quality is being realized.

Just one example: The new Emergency Warning System from Telstra will use billing addresses from the Telstra maintained IPND (Integrated Public Number Database). Based on my experience with the data quality in IPND I can guarantee there will have to be a considerable amount of work (hopefully they will use PSMA G-Naf) to validate the addresses in the IPND and get a good geocode match.

http://tinyurl.com/nvz2bo

If we all worked of the same data to begin with we could funnel all corrections to the base set (Principle: Fix Once Use Many Times).

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:59:00 PDT

Crowd-sourced data is great as part of a quality data validation chain.

In many applications, as in emergency services, for example, it would be a risky move to go away from Government sourced data. I have investigated and evaluated many soley commercial data supply products and have found none that meet our stringent quality requirements.

They may be good enough for use in a TomTom or other toy that will be discared in a few years, but not for complex high risk applications.

Some spatial data sets are vast in size and complex in nature (road transportation data for example, and street address data is also a far more complex area then most people seem to realize).

In emergency services our spatial data must have guarantees and longevity, with all of the fundamentals in place, such as authoritative source for every change, persistent feature identifiers (PFIs), detailed metadata and also transparent data-models that will not be modified without full consultation.

Location data is too important to simply outsource completely, and we have to be actively involved in the QA process and this includes the entire information life cycle.

Consequently we use Department of Sustainablity and Environment "Vicmap Data", maintained through established government programs such as PIP (Property Information Program) and also enhanced with some quasi crowd-sourcing inputs from VICNAMES and from the Notification Edit Service (NES).

It should be noted however that this "crowd-sourcing" is really relationship based collaboration, with has rigorous controls and processes, with multiple cross checks, and all transactions are tracable and transparent. It also has benefit of being multi-sector: for example, Melway, Telstra, Australia Post, Victorian Local Governments and Victorian Emergency Services participate.

These arrangements continue to evolve and develop slowly, lacking in my view the government investment, recognition or support they deserve. Over the years various business cases and proposals such as GEIN the "Geospatial Emergency Information Network" , and VPAIMF - Victorian Property Address Information Management Framework did not make it up for one reason or another.

With limited funds, the DSE Spatial Information Infratsructure have put in a lot of expertise and intellectual effort, developing leading edge strategies (Spatial Information Stratgegy), governance arrangements (Spatial Sciences Council, chaired by Ollie Hedberg), Spatial information management material (Custodianship), and data models (such as the new Vicmap Features data, hopefully to be released soon).

Some Vicmap data also finds its way into the national datasets managed by PSMA, but at present the national data is not updated as often as it needs to be for many emergency services purposes.

All of this leaves open the question always on my mind: are commercial players willing to work with government to align their activity and value add to the government data (eg SENSIS, Navteq)?

Comment by Brad Peterson

Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:36:16 PDT

Interesting background about AusDIN. I had a look at the current AusDIN site and it seems very complicated with unnecessarily long URIs but nothing as basic as an RSS feed for emergency warnings. The site is pretty bad when viewed from a mobile phone.

Surely all this needs is for jurisdictions to agree on an XML format for emergency warnings and a simple API to aggregate them to a a single trusted feed.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:12:25 PDT

Craig, I think proposed legislation is more the job for the Parliament. Comlaw should be an authoritative source of current and historical mandates. I include historical mandates because data and associated metadata will not cease to exist if the legislation that required it to be collected is repealed. Even if the text of a repealed Act is not there, a basic RDF description of it could be.

Comment by Jeff Granger (Space-Time Research)

Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:33:51 PDT

Hi Craig,

The company I work for, Space-Time Research, developed the software used by CDATA Online and TableBuilder. I can't speak for the ABS as to any plans they may have for implementing an API to their services. However, Space-Time Research is aware of the open data movement and the demand for direct access to Public Sector Information.

We are currently exploring ways in our SuperSTAR product set of delivering more direct access through APIs. In particular, we are looking at SDMX as an XML standard, as well as RESTful APIs.

For our customers, they often express a need to exercise a duty of care in delivering their data to the public and other agencies, whichever mechanism is used to do the dissemination. So we are also looking out how widgets could possibly be used to let someone embed custom views of a data source into a 3rd party web site. This is sort of a mid-point to full open data provision. It would give more flexible use (i.e., access from outside of a PSI data provider's website) while still retaining a clear attribution back to the responsible provider.

Comment by Wayne Eddy

Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:44:42 PDT

I notice that the site has 40% thumbs down at the moment. I'd be extremely interested to learn what the people who are negative about the site dislike about it, so the site can be improved.

Comment by Carlo Andreacchio

Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:45:32 PDT

Hi Craig,

Our datasets in WMS and WFS services are compliant with OGC (Open Geospatial Consortium) standards and can be accessed in machine-readable formats through GIS applications that support WMS and/or WFS connections - our public SLIP interface is but one method through which our data can be accessed.

If you have a GIS application such as ArcGIS, then the following URLs can be used (within such applications) to access our publicly available data:
For WFS services: https://www2.landgate.wa.gov.au/ows/wfspublic_4283/wfs
For WMS services: https://www2.landgate.wa.gov.au/ows/wmspublic

I hope this is of some help to you.

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:57:01 PDT

I'd change that to "the potential for unlimited self made maps".
I hate it when Government agencies try to anticipate / control what we see on a map (eg meaningless statistical summaries)

I want to be able to ask my own penetrating questions, to 'discover' new relationship by mapping my own data over other peoples data.

So, yes, its the tools and the data, and less control freaks and show-offs.

However, I also dont want to build all the funamental data from scratch either. Thus, a system like NES in Victoria has built a platform of fundamental authoritative data (VicMap, Spatial Vision and Melways map books, Virtual Earth) all kept up to date.

Currently this is for map data maintenance, but the principle could be extended broadly.

Deliver at WoG level the base platform (as WMS) that deals with all the hard stuff (computationally expensive, technical activity, tiles,imagery_ and free us from the tyrany of dealing with vendor updates of framework data. This would not only put GIS onto many more desktops, but would greatly free up our own GIS resources to work on our own data or specialist data.

We can then view our own data and other data from a shared WoG central spatial data store (Spatial Data Library).

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:37:14 PDT

In the interests of pursuing the points made elsewhere in this site about valid addresses and geocoding, I opened the data for Victoria

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/DADD1CBAB872C833CA256FEF001F4E89/$File/vic2.xls

Immediately I notice that at least 25% of facilities do not have a valid Victorian street address (as in VicMap Address, or G-NAF) , simply because the record has no street number in the file. There can be a number of reasons for this, but it iillustrates the point that this would make the data substantially less useful, any organization trying to use the data would need to do extensive data cleaning and matching.

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:51:49 PDT

Interesting suggestion. This is what the AGD run AusDIN, an AEMC sponsiored project (see http://www.ausdin.gov.au/accesspoint?action=menuHome ) was, in its original conception, intended to provide.

As I recall, a feasibility study was undertaken in 2000 by EarthWare Systems, which led to Geoscience Australia developing the first prototype modelled on the Australian Geoscience portal.

The first 2001 AusDIN Portal Group was a working group formed at GDIN 2001 Conference in Canberra. Like GDIN, (Global Dister information Network)http://www.sdp.gov/sdp/initiative/gdin/31536.htm the original AusDIN concept came from the shared frustrations of experts who either found it hard to find relevant, existing information in short order, or couldn't efficiently or cost effectively change existing information into more useful formats.

There is some conceptal information on GDIN at prepared by Bernioe Joyce [http://web.earthsci.unimelb.edu.au/Joyce/geology/GDIN_WG.htm]

The 2001 AusDIN Portal Group and Geoscience Australia oversaw the development of a technical demonstration AusDIN Portal II. At the time a web mapping capability was still being considered. The concept was open access with no restricted links. It was to be readily expandable to incorporate new features and embellish existing ones.

The original concept went beyond an internet portal, rather a network of organisations and people discovering, collecting, sharing and managing information and knowledge relevant to all aspects of Emergency Management – from scientific papers to lessons learned - for use by emergency managers, academics, researchers and the public.

Key was for AusDIN to somehow support spatial data access policy developments at State and National levels through bodies such as ANZLIC, AEMC and EMSINA.

The ways in which EMSINA (the Emergency Management Spatial Information Network) saw potential for AusDIN was in the context of existing spatial information related deficiencies in areas for information sharing, such as
- promoting disaster risk assessments, data and analysis
- developing on-line tools for post-disaster assessment
- promote improvements to comparative information by jurisdiction
- promote prevention, mitigation and recovery activities
- provide support to active R&D
- means to further engage Local Government in natural disaster mitigation
- achieve safer, sustainable communities -
- support volunteers
- encourage good practice in emergency management

At one point, in about 2003 I think, there was a very short-lived AusDIN Steering Committee established and Chaired by EMA who had agreed to take a leadership role for AusDIN. The previous focus was perceived by EMA at the time as being too technical in nature and then it all somehow moved to AGD Attorney generals Department.

Comment by Yvonne R Thompson

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:23:52 PDT

The G-NAF is fundamental data, but there are many issues still.

For example: Currency

The data update cycle with the State sourced address data needs to be reduced to improve its currency. My organization uses the Department of Sustainability VicMap Address from Victoria, under licence. This same data goes into G-NAF but is not as current.

I believe that PSMA is working on this.

If all of Government did use a consistent address file and validate all data entry agiants this file, then many 'dirty data' headaches would go away and the exchange of data across government could be significantly improved.

I cannot begin to decroibe th emount of time wasted trying to clean up and geocode government datasets with rubbish address fields.

This is a huge issue for emergency services. If data provided by government for, as an example, aged-care facilities or hospitals, is not correctly addressed this can cause a delay in ability for Triple-0 Computer Aided Dispatch systems (CAD) to verify the location and dispatch an emergency responder.

Comment by craig.thomler

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:46:43 PDT

Hi Carlo,

Can all of the datasets be accessed in a machine-readable format or via an API separate to the SLIP interface?

Or are users tied to the front-end?

Comment by craig.thomler

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:35:12 PDT

Are there plans to allow this data to be accessed in a machine-readable format for third party mash-ups?

Developing an API to support datafeed requests from CDATA would be another giuant leap forward.

Comment by craig.thomler

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:33:45 PDT

A useful step forward.

Is the Victorian government making the VISTA data available in a machine-readable format for people to mash-up in third party sites?

Or is it only accessible via the VISTA07 system?

Comment by asaletourneau

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:06:42 PDT

Good point Andrae. Will re-word my idea:

"Let's get all the departments with all the data relating to these gaps to make it available and offer a suite of applications that will enable anyone to explore what Australia looks like regarding this, (and probably a few more!) issues."

The user can decide whether he/she want to use a government supplied app to interpret the data or not. The important thing is that if they do want to 'see' the gaps there is a tool to do it and it is far easiet to access than trawling through countless reports/royal commissions/papers/departmnet publications etc etc

Comment by andrae.muys

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:45:05 PDT

It is being voted down precisely because it involves tying down government information and rendering it inaccessible. The proposal is to:

"Let's get all the departments with all the data relating to these gaps to make it available via an application that will enable anyone to explore what Australia looks like regarding this, (and probably a few more!) issues."

It is this "application" that makes this a bad idea, and why it is being voted down.

Comment by lloydp

Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:50:53 PDT

I cant understand why this suggestion has been voted down. It involves freeing up government information and presenting it in a meaningful way. This is exactly what is needed.

Comment by luke.jansen

Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:13:02 PDT

This idea has merit - particularly in terms of development of a set of documents that could be easily adapted for use. There are project management standards and principles (e.g Prince2) which could be used to develop templates. It would be useful to have a library of differing types of project management - ie. building and construction, IT system development, goods and services projects, policy & legislation. Difficulties may be overcoming confidentiality issues in posting examples or case studies that can be adapted. Certainly an idea worth further consideration.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:15:49 PDT

The High Court's ruling on IceTV Pty Limited v Nine Network Australia Pty Ltd may be relevant. There is no copyright protection on compilations of factual information regardless of its commercial value. Third parties have the right to draw on facts contained in a compilation without a licence, even if the organisation expended time and resources in compiling those facts. The High Court decision indicates that it is not the commercial value of a compilation of factual material which is relevant in determining the scope of copyright protection, rather copyright protection applies only to the form in which that information is expressed.

Comment by dan mackinlay

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:57:17 PDT

Looks like the UK is ahead of us here too: http://www.bl.uk/news/2009/pressrelease20090904.html

Comment by andrew.harvey4

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 04:43:21 PDT

I agree with Craig. Systems like OpenID seem a better way.

Comment by andrew.harvey4

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 04:31:30 PDT

I'm wondering, what about this data? I can download it, it has a fairly permissible license. Is it the format that the data is provided in that is the problem? Or am I missing something?

Comment by andrew.harvey4

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 04:26:25 PDT

They have lots of goodies at ftp://ftp2.bom.gov.au/anon/gen/. And its just FTP which makes it easy to access the data and see what data is available. They even document their naming conventions http://www.bom.gov.au/inside/itb/dm/idcodes/struc.shtml

Not sure about their "Registered User Services", I mean I don't know if these services have extra data that isn't already available.

They use a permissible license for this data as well,

"Permission can be granted to download and redistribute all the standard forecasts, charts and climate and summary information that are currently freely available on the Bureau Web site. These can be downloaded from the Web or from the FTP site.

Permission for downloading, repackage any registered Bureau user services requires separate formal negotiations as set out in the Access Regime.

The standard conditions for downloading from the Web or the FTP server for repackaging and/or re-distribution are:

* the Bureau of Meteorology should be identified as the source of the information
* the Bureau of Meteorology's copyright be acknowledged
* that the information is presented with the permission of the Bureau
* any Bureau copyright statement or logo included in a product must be retained
* responsibility of any repackaging, including quality and timeliness of the services, should be clearly stated as that of the host organisation
* all text or graphical re-presentation of forecasts must include the issue time and date and the validity of the period
* the web services on which Bureau of Meteorology data and products are displayed, should contain a prominent link to the Bureau's home page
* there are significant quality control and liability issues for any secondary distributor associated with the redistribution of warnings. Therefore a pointer to our warning page is recommended in preference to downloading from the Web or FTP. A more reliable source of text based forecasts and warnings for commercial distribution is a dedicated line connection to our message switching system (CMSS) This is a registered user service provided on a subscription basis."

Comment by asaletourneau

Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:46:37 PDT

Yes, let's definitley not link data release to any individual app especially if all it is is a 'funky' visualisation tool. Let's release the data, and offer a range of apps that will allow people to create visual representations of relationships between stats. Hopefully this will allow a customised plotting of the social landscape(s). And yes, we difintely need to build open ended apps (hopefully these will come from the user) that allow re-using and repurposing of data. Let's not leave it to government to decide how data can be applied. Let's open the gates.

Comment by andrae.muys

Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:43:58 PDT

Too early to standardise yet. At this stage, redundancy is a good thing. Let a thousand flowers bloom, and all that jazz.

Comment by andrae.muys

Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:41:04 PDT

If the data is out there, the apps can emerge as they are required. Linking data release to some funky visualisation web-app is a bad idea.

One of the issues facing current government attempts at data release is the embedding of data in 'user-friendly' visualisation tools, preventing retasking, reuse, and representation.

Comment by andrae.muys

Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:36:39 PDT

To what extent is this not already provided by austlii?

Comment by James Purser

Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:40:58 PDT

Good point, call it an App Portal or something like that. On another note, I've moved apps4gov to its own home at http://apps4gov.planetgov20.com

I'm now toying with the idea of adding Datasets and linking them to the various apps.

Comment by craig.thomler

Sun, 13 Sep 2009 06:41:21 PDT

But make proposed legislation available BEFORE it is passed. A suitable length of time to allow interested parties to absorb the details of complex legislation.

Comment by craig.thomler

Sun, 13 Sep 2009 06:39:02 PDT

Just please don't call it a 'store' - when nothing is sold :)

I see this as part of a data.gov.au initiative.

See all the available data feeds AND how people have made them into apps in the same website.

That way the group managing data.gov.au will also maintain an understanding of how data accessed via the site is being applied.

Comment by James Purser

Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:48:34 PDT

Hi Jimi,

To answer your question, I guess when I envision GovForge, I'm looking at it from an Open Source point of view. Rather than being the canonical "You must use these packages!" type resource, I see it as more of a collaborative "we've got the same itch to scratch" environment.

Once again it comes back to cultural change I think. Along with GovForge the PS needs to start de-siloising (if you know what I mean).

Comment by craig.thomler

Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:12:59 PDT

I was thinking about mentioning www.gold.gov.au as well :)

So the data could be built on to add value and product a more useful tool like www.whorunsgov.com

Comment by bryan.king

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:25:52 PDT

I'd to come off as sounding like a smarty-pants, but if one looks at the data reported* as part of AustraliaScan, Sensis and Nielsen research, it shows pretty clearly that age is a major factor affecting the take-up of Web 2.0-types of technologies. Yes, there is a growing trend among the oldies to adopt these tools, but the data clearly show that they are lagging behind all of the younger demographic groups.

* http://www.egov.vic.gov.au/index.php?env=-innews/detail:m1035-1-1-8-s-0:n-1753-1-0--#?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=sep2009news

Comment by Peter Ross

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:55:00 PDT

It would also be interesting if the legislation description could be lifted into an OWL model.

This would allow questions such as find me all the legislation which impacted on councils, corporations with more than 200 employees, etc, etc.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:32:11 PDT

X500 is very complex. That's why LDAP was developed.

Why not just do it all in RDF? This is most useful to support semweb stuff.

Comment by craig.thomler

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:42 PDT

James, while I'm not voting in this category at all (for obvious reasons), I agree with you.

I find it depressing that while the community can generate nearly 80 ideas (so far) on datasets and Gov 2 projects for the taskforce - in response to the category "Nominate agencies and public servants at all levels of government in Australia who are Gov 2.0 champions." we have so far only nominated three 'agencies' and one public servant.

Is it tall poppy syndrome at work? A manifestation of the culture of the Australian public service?

Surely within the public sector we can recognise and respect each others' skills and achievements even if it is deemed inappropriate for them to be broadcast to the public at large.

The other four nominations, while all great initiatives and deserving of recognition, seem to fall outside a strict interpretation of the category boundaries.

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:52:34 PDT

This is a super proposal and one that aligns with Silvia's proposal in the brainstorming section

Bring it on !

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:49:32 PDT

I believe that Bryan is very wrong. I long ago stopped listening to "x doesn't use the internet" where x is some group in society.

There is simply no usefulness in the generalisations that get made about who is into the web. The fastets growing age group for facebook is 55+, twitter is actually a 45+ tool. Aged care facilities are setting up net cafe's at an alarming rate

The oldies who find themseleves getting less mobile are taking to the web en-masse

May I suggest to Bryan that he broaden the proposal to be more general and taking into account that it is the socio-economic position and/or disability status of people that underlines our key equity issues

anyways, pointing to any 'have not' group to support any halt on innovation is a suggestion (and not one that Bryan makes) that I find unacceptable and will fight against at any turn.

I have put up with it for more than 20 years and as the newsreader said, I am as mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:42:54 PDT

Craig, I have a lot of time for your suggestions but your comment is not right, in my opinion.

I understand where the sentiment comes from but I believe that Silvia's suggestion is much broader and deeper than your comment covers.

You are talking hardware. S and I (and, no doubt, others) are talking an entirely bigger picture.

I commend Silvia's original proposal to the TF

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:40:16 PDT

Bummer Sylvia, ya got in before me you fast cat :)

I am so into this as an idea and would love to be involved. I nominate Sylvia and I as the drivers :)

I concur with S on every point she makes. The power of tagging video (frame by frame, hot spot by hot spot) is so exciting.

I can think of so many examples of video that I have been involved in producing for government in the past few years that I think would be so helpful

As example, I am in Brisbane at the moment and Hendra virus is big news. I worked on a product for Animal Health Australia not long ago on the control of infectious diseases but I cannot locate it on their site

A concerted effort in finding these video resources, tagging them in collaboration with subject experts in teh agencies, and then making them available in video.gov.au would be fantastic

As big Kev would say, I'm excited !!

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:32:32 PDT

This is an extremely important suggestion. There does need to be some real fringe stuff funded.

If we look at the Venture and Angel capital model, there is always some ratios of success/failure. VCs and Angels tend to back a bunch of things, prepared to lose on most, in the hope the biggie

A look at people like Sequina Capital shows this approach in practice.

It is so hard to work out what will work and what will not. I know I have been wrong on many occassions.

So, yes, a nice little fund for some crazy ideas may well pay dividends

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:28:52 PDT

This is amuch better idea than the one suggested for a central code repository

For me, the big challenge is the "how to think" not "what to think" and the sharing of documentation on how agencies got somewhere on the web 2 path will be invaluable to people new to the game

Viva la Craig !

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:26:50 PDT

Yes, this is the best of Craig's ideas. He makes a very clear distinction between the IT thinking and the web thinking and he is right

I am a small example out here in the private world. I have no idea how the whole IT part of the web works, it seems like magic to me, but I think I know a little about what the web can do.

This should definately be a core recommendation of the TF

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:23:04 PDT

This concurs with some of my suggestions in my submission to the TF.

As usual Craig has sharpened the general idea into a nicely practical approach.

I will be voting this up

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:21:23 PDT

on the money Craig. as posters have pointed out, there is already great work being done and i look forward to these being pulled together into a unified portal

I know it's sick but I am excited about the idea.

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:18:59 PDT

THis is a good idea James but it has some potential flaws.

The main one is the potential for it to lock in the worst of breed.

I give as example one the well intentioned but seriously misunderstood AGIMO push for MySource Matrix CMS many moons ago. AGIMO was trying to help out smaller agencies by pointing to a well documented solution for an emerging need.

The result was that people like me spent the next few years fending off the suggestion that AGIMO had "mandated" the use of MySource. Very frustrating and got worse as the months and years went on and MySOurce started to become a worst of breed.

So, I fear that the pace of innovation will consipre against the idea of a code library.

However, a one-stop shop for examplars is another thing. That would be a great idea and should, of course not be restricted to just gov stuff. There is an explosion of wonderful web stuff being documented on sites such as feedmyapp and techcrunch

SOmething like that with a sharper focus on things that might be useful for gov would be brilliant

Comment by Jimi Bostock

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:10:22 PDT

I fully concur with this nomination

Comment by laughton.andrew

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:09:07 PDT

There is a risk that the data may be stored offshore, however inefficient, there is at least some hope of it being secure.

Comment by laughton.andrew

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:43:04 PDT

What are the options ?
If you do not want to use a book or an online site, the only other option I can see is by storing it on a CD rom.

The danger of this is lack of privacy.
Anybody could take a phone number and find out someones address. Good for burglars or thugs, but not most people.

Comment by openid

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:58:14 PDT

This is an excellent idea. With the ABS website data released under Creative Commons, the only restriction here is technical, not legal.

Comment by James Purser

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:43:32 PDT

I thought I would have a crack at this one myself.

Right now it's sitting at http://apps4gov.development.collaborynth.com.au/ however it should be moving to its own domain soon.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:02:13 PDT

Craig, the problem with YouTube and the other popular commercial social networking sites is they are not subject to Australian law.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:55:11 PDT

If it's just an aggregator of feeds from provider sites (airlines, hotels, etc) then it's not that difficult to do.

Comment by Ron Lubensky

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:46:12 PDT

Hi Aaron, not sure about the tie to the particular idea relating to data access. But the general idea of stakeholder registration for public policy collaboration seems right. A bit like a lobbyist register.

There are distinct engagement processes for randomly-recruited mini-publics and for passionate, contesting stakeholders. Some process designs bring them together. Online facilities could open such processes to more transparent inclusion.

Comment by Ron Lubensky

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:16:05 PDT

Craig has seeded many fine items in this space, and I applaud him wholeheartedly for his commitment to Gov 2.0 goodness.

Comment by Aaron Osterby

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:14:06 PDT

Ron:

That makes sense. I also think there are ties to "Collaborative definition of Stakeholders."

Comment by Ron Lubensky

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:10:48 PDT

I endorse this, but it is a component of brainstorm idea "Site for targeted collaboration around policy" http://gov2taskforce.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/13937-5361, which talks about online public collaboration and deliberation for policy setting. (See my comment there too).

Comment by asaletourneau

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 05:23:58 PDT

Craig, I think your statement 'because a majority of the people who tend to work in that sector are not totally comfortable with "learning through doing"' could be considered somewhat of a generalisation. I think Public Servants are only too happy to get their hands 'dirty', make mistakes and learn through doing. What they need I would expect is the 'space' in which they work to support them...culturally and infrastructurally...to define in accessible terms what Web 2.0 has to offer and how they can apply this new 'way of thinking' to everyday activities. I have been a PS for a number of years at the State and Federal level and I would have never seen a colleague pass up the offer of a 'hands on' workshop over a 'sit down' seminar. But maybe I'm generalising.

Comment by James Purser

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:04:15 PDT

Hi Aaron,

Yup this is definitely an area rich in debate and ideas. I'd just like to respond to a couple of points.

"The "do something for the common good" view adds cost to a project that is developing code. It is a legitimate and economically rational view that says investing in efforts to open source the code is non-value adding for the project."

In my mind, Government is different from business, in that the common good has to be a core plank in the rationale for doing anything. It is the very reason for the Government to exist in the first place.

The economically rational view is one that I find generally tends to ignore things like "the common good" as not being economic and thus unimportant.

"That's not to say there isn't real value to be found. If I thought that I wouldn't be here discussing this. The point is that the direct value to projects of open source needs to be accepted at a very senior level before the project management culture of an organisation will change."

Agreed, I think everyone can agree that for any of the projects being proposed we're looking at needing a cultural shift.

"If we can agree that: "Open source software is a community asset used to create wealth in the private sector." (among other things)"

I'd be happy to agree to "Open source software is a community asset used by the community". Yes it's used by the private sector to make money (I make money with it every day), but that isn't the central reason for the existance of Open Source Software by any stretch of the imagination.

"So I think we're just thinking about the problem a little differently. I wonder: How can we encourage grass roots access to government code without government having to take additional the risk or make investments with uncertain gains?"

Simple, make it open, make it free and have Government willing to engage on it. You want grass roots access you remove as many road blocks as possible for people to get access.

Locking the source code into commercial contracts is your basic definition of the opposite of grass roots. You immediately put commercial interests above those of the people/community.

Comment by bryan.king

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 01:22:22 PDT

Ouch Angela! Methinks thou protest a wee bit too much...!

Yes, it is a generalisation, but one I am quite happy making, because I think that on the whole, it is true. Like any generalisation, there are exceptions, and I also don't have a problem with that fact either, because often the exeptions prove the rule.

Anyway, so sorry you found offence with my light-hearted idea, but if you are as reslient as you claim, I'm sure you will bounce right back.

Comment by Aaron Osterby

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:36:19 PDT

This is rich field for discussion. Just to clarify, when I say economic utility I don't literally mean commercialisation.

A project manager's job is to deliver her project on time and on budget. Her job is to maximise the economic utility of the public funds provided for that project. In other words get the biggest bang for the buck.

There is a legitimate view that spending on anything not directly related to the project objectives dilutes economic utility. The open source release idea may well be in the best interests of a large diffuse group, but if the effort doesn't move the ball for that project, the project manager will discount its value.

The "do something for the common good" view adds cost to a project that is developing code. It is a legitimate and economically rational view that says investing in efforts to open source the code is non-value adding for the project.

That's not to say there isn't real value to be found. If I thought that I wouldn't be here discussing this. The point is that the direct value to projects of open source needs to be accepted at a very senior level before the project management culture of an organisation will change.

Keep in mind what you point out about the ability to profit from open source.

If we can agree that: "Open source software is a community asset used to create wealth in the private sector." (among other things)

I'd argue that's the main driver for the success of SourceForge, but it leaves government out of the equation. It is difficult to see a direct value proposition for government in open sourcing it's code if that's your basic understanding of it.

So I think we're just thinking about the problem a little differently. I wonder: How can we encourage grass roots access to government code without government having to take additional the risk or make investments with uncertain gains?

If government invested in publishing acres of code no one used, the press could legitimately call that a waste of public dollars.

Comment by James Purser

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:09:20 PDT

"If the government took a policy position that IP is open source by default, whose got any incentive to publish it? You would have to have an open source publishing office or something. Code could be called open source by default and stay undiscovered because it doesn't serve any one's economic utility to publish it."

Umm, the idea behind GovForge isn't monetising internally developed software. Instead it's about developing the community of hackers and developers within Government and encouraging the sharing of code and ideas.

Of course the next argument against the closed source unless otherwise noted idea is that the software has been developed on the publics dollar. This isn't a case of a private company taking something built by their accounts people and commercialising it.

I would also like to point out that it is quite possible to make money off Open Source software.

Comment by Aaron Osterby

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:02:52 PDT

This is brainstorming, so its important to put things out there.

I certainly agree that the government owns the IP in the first instance. It's not unusual for that IP to be assigned to the creators if the creator is a firm, or alternatively for that IP to never see the light of day.

SA Government has an IP to creator clause in it's IP policy. I would suggest that it's probably never been used. I recall that the government continues to mainatin some financial interest in the case that it is commercialised.

If the government took a policy position that IP is open source by default, whose got any incentive to publish it? You would have to have an open source publishing office or something. Code could be called open source by default and stay undiscovered because it doesn't serve any one's economic utility to publish it.

Allowing some shared ownership would also have the effect of sorting the wheat from the chaff as people would not bother to invest effort in things that wouldn't have much value.

Comment by angela.burford

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:32:43 PDT

Digital divide? You mean the divide between those who were born with lullabies sung to them by a laptop and we old farts who had the foresight and patience to cast aside our quill pens, well, okay biros and invent and adopt new ways of doing things (hardly luddism). We valiant warriors who battled on using clunky punch cards, tortuous software, hurled disks as big as tanks around and marched down floors to print rooms.

But, Bryan this is where your argument crashes and burns. We didn't stay there in a time warp we kept on (and dare I say keep on) smashing down obstacles and paving ways to a better, brighter way of doing all sorts of things. We tinkered with hardware, software and firmware so that we can all, and not just the so called Digerati, access the world in the palm of our hands.

It may also come as somewhat of a surprise to you that the dawning of the 21st century did not give birth to collaboration and sharing of ideas. Consider the collaborations that split the atom, developed the internet, overcame the tyranny of Hitler, and largely eradicated polio.

Your “simple generational facts” and assumptions are contemptible but above all laughable in their ignorance. Show me the data that says that older people are inherently luddites who are not using and capable of using all the technology that exists today. This is play school stuff compared to what we cut our teeth on.

I am not altogether grateful for the kind offer of salvation by someone who has manipulated the evidence, ignored history and has such an ageist and jaundiced view of the world. I suggest you contemplate the usefulness of rash and scathing generalisations and leave we older ones alone to twitter around in our glorious computing clouds dreaming of gesture driven interfaces and contemplating 4th generation wireless networks.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 22:47:06 PDT

I disagree. This is a really bad suggestion. It would effectively make every public servant an independent contractor. Public servants are part of the executive government and the "creator" is the executive government.

Most government IP does not generate secondary value in the economy because it is locked up by unnecessary restrictions. I really doubt whether the benefits outweigh the administrative costs of managing licencing agreements.

Software developed in house by staff developers should be open source by default without needing senior executive permission each time.

Comment by James Purser

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:00:25 PDT

Of course the alternative is that we turn this idea on its head and say that the default position for Government Software should be Open Source.

Comment by alexander.sadleir

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:54:01 PDT

I think it's important that the data is open rather than just provided to google; it should be published on their website. The google data format has been well designed but there's potential applications out of google maps such as simulating alternate routes for research purposes as well as providing data of bus stop locations for OpenStreetMap.
Many international transit providers and Transperth already publish this kind of information publically - http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TimetablesMaps/SpatialDataAccess/tabid/254/Default.aspx
And when ACTION get their fancy new ticketing system, they'll be well prepared to open that data too ;)

Comment by gordon.grace

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:15:39 PDT

From what I understand, Google has helpfully defined a spec, provided a visualisation platform via Google Maps, and created a notification / harvesting method.

http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.html

They don't own or curate the data - nor do I believe it's their responsiblity to do so.

Releasing / publishing data in this well-documented, arguably open spec will give additional providers / developers / consumers the ability to re-use the dataset.

From the link above:

"If you're at a public agency that oversees public transportation for your city, you can use the GTFS specification to provide schedules and geographic information to Google Maps and other Google applications that show transit information. For full details, please refer to the Google Transit Partners Program website."

Comment by Brad Peterson

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:44:08 PDT

Surely this is something Google would consider doing itself and not really an issue for government. Google has already done this for most public transport in the UK, which is far more complex than Australia.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:39:48 PDT

Places like the Australian War Memorial, Australian National Maritime Museum and National Archives also have film collections.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:37:58 PDT

There is a delay in getting out emergency messages because of the way the media operates. If a TV or radio station gets a fax from an emergency service they will call for confirmation before broadcasting it. If there was a simple RSS feed of geocoded emergency messages/incidents from a single trusted source, this might get emergency messages out faster.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:34:07 PDT

The URLs on Comlaw are way too long and there is no reason they need to be. Compare this with austlii.edu.au which is nicely hierarchical. Simple, permanent URLs to both the legislation and the RDF descriptions are a no brainer.

Comment by Aaron Osterby

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:30:22 PDT

The other one is the success of the Nintendo Wii in aged care facilities. It's a really good gaming platform with theraputic value, apparently. Very good for dementia patients in particular.

Comment by Aaron Osterby

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:28:59 PDT

There was some success in takeup of video conferencing among aged care facility residents assocaited with a Victorian Fibre Optic project along the southern coast. It was laid to enable tele-medicine, but there was an interesting side-effect of residents having virtual knitting circles, catching up with friends in different facilitise and so forth. Big uptake of technology there because it supported what the folks wanted to do.

Comment by Aaron Osterby

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:49:49 PDT

I'd add open recovery phases to this general idea. Disaster recovery goes on for a long time after a major disaster.

Comment by gordon.grace

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:47:01 PDT

Some jurisdictions and transport modes have already released this data, so I didn't want to make a sweeping suggestion that could've implied that *all* public transport data was delivered in a less-than-mashable fashion.

I suspect that a suggestion that is detailed, specific, and achievable may be more likely to be actioned.

Residents of other cities would likely be aware of which public transport providers haven't yet released their data, and may want to adopt the tagging / naming convention I've attempted here...

"Public Transport Timetables" - %City% - %Mode%

Comment by openid

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:33:06 PDT

I hear what you are saying, craig, but I think there is a middle ground definition of "map". Providing map tiles so that punters may overlay them in their own slippy maps is one useful thing. and providing massive GIS data sets and vector information to create various mapping technologies is another. They both serve different needs. So you can render map tiles from a massive GIS data set, but it's a computationally expensive, technical activity... which makes the data set useless for small players who are fare more likely to be interested in rolling their own slippy map. On the other hand, lots of academic and industrial uses coudl very legitimately want straight-up geographic polygons or raster data maps. I would argue that both formats are worth providing.

FWIW, map tiles are an industry standard formst - http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/TilingStandard

Comment by craig.thomler

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:49:09 PDT

Not just ACT - release the same information for all public transport schedules across Australia.

Comment by craig.thomler

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:46:23 PDT

I'd prefer to not see data in a government defined map - just to get access to the data in an industry standard format so it can be portrayed on the map of my choice.

Comment by Martin Cahill

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:43:16 PDT

Hi James... I will quiz the team at talknet.eu. They may well have plans to adopt the new social networking features of Confluence 3.0. I suspect they do. From my experience TALK has been very successful, but this success has been limited to the radicals/ tech savvy bunch. They recognise the potential of 'wiki'. However, the mainstream market has been brought into web 2.0 through the likes of bebo, myspace, and facebook where networking features rule supreme. We all recognise these tools. We see their value. No need for a training course. With this in mind I would suggest that any web2.0 initiative in government starts there. Collaborative (and hugely important) technologies like wiki will come. It will be interesting to see how talknet.eu and others like GovDex move the other way. In the end, we will all meet in the middle, I suspect.

Comment by craig.thomler

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:23:16 PDT

My view tends to be that we need to go where our customers are (use the tools they have chosen to use) and not reinvent the wheel.

Government would not create its own newspaper, radio station or TV channel simply to provide government content (and the ABC doesn't qualify - different purpose). Why would we create our own video site? How would this benefit the public?

Youtube has significant market share now and there are other commercial providers of online video platforms in this market such as Vimeo and Hulu (not in Australia yet) - why not partner as the US and UK have?

Standard tagging, RSS and a central site aggregating government video could easily be built on top of any video provider (though who would visit it? would be a showcase only I think).

I don't see that government has any specific needs or skills which would justify the investment of building and maintaining it's own national online video service.

Comment by Nathanael Boehm

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:18:08 PDT

Include the National Film and Sound Archive's collection in there as well.

Comment by craig.thomler

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:13:43 PDT

Hi Michael,

Given there are international standards which can be applied for website statistical reporting (what data is counted and what metrics are used for different purposes), I don't understand the difficulties that WA has had - aren't standard measures such as uniques, visits, pageviews, searches, view duration, etc applicable across websites (whether on full pages or on a modular basis)?

I also wasn't focused on the expenditure measurement upfront. You can provide a standard web reporting platform across government without having to delve into the intricacies of how agencies cost websites.

Comment by craig.thomler

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:00:50 PDT

Brad, you could start with Apps for America, run by Sunlight foundation (www.sunlightlabs.com/contests/appsforamerica2/)

There's also example apps at Data-Gov (http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Main_Page)

There's also Apps for Democracy, at state level for DC - which is based on slightly different datasets (http://www.appsfordemocracy.org/)

Frankly I think data.gov missed a beat by not providing a public directory of all applications using data.gov data to increase public awareness of these apps and help understand centrally the level of data use enabled by the site. A hint for nsw.data.gov.au there.

Comment by craig.thomler

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:48:43 PDT

Regarding the great ethic of Web 2.0 "learning by doing" - I think that works well for early adopters, who are more risk-tolerant, flexible and eager to learn (hence their willingness to adopt).

However when embedding a change throughout any organisation it is important to cater for different learning styles, background competencies, interest levels and levels of willingness to engage (without carrot or stick incentives).

Maybe one of the reasons Web 2.0 hasn't penetrated further into the Australian public sector already is because a majority of the people who tend to work in that sector are not totally comfortable with "learning through doing" and require a different type of approach to build their courage and competency. That's neither good nor bad, it's just reflective of the difference in the type of work.

Comment by craig.thomler

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:40:06 PDT

All the systems mentioned are part of the solution - as are all the state geospatial systems, openstreetmaps for Australia and more.

However why are there so many different solutions - many not compatible - being developed?

That's the crux of this idea - build a single system which aggregates all this valuable information together in a format that can be used across any standard mapping technology.

It saves money, reduces duplication and error and becomes a national resource - part of the digital infrastructure our nation needs.

Comment by openid

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:47:22 PDT

I agree that the BOM data would be great to have made available... except that is IS already available in an open format. there's a download link right there on the page!

http://www.bom.gov.au/clim_data/cdio/tables/text/IDCJCM0037_066062.csv

Comment by Michael Harris

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:33:00 PDT

Agreed, this would be a really great information source for so many different groups, from businesses specialising in dieting and healthy eating, allergy suffers, etc.

Comment by james.dellow

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 03:53:48 PDT

I've given this vote, but note that in this category it says: "Nominate agencies and public servants at all levels of government in Australia who are Gov 2.0 champions. We want examples of government Web 2.0 initiatives or the work of Gov 2.0 innovators currently in development or developed over the last 18 months." - does this mean OpenAustralia is excluded? If so, maybe we need a prize for Gov 2.0 innovators *outside* of Government?

Comment by james.dellow

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 03:50:18 PDT

The issue with GovDex is that it designed to support collaborative projects, some of which are public and others are restricted. The latest version of Confluence (v3.0) does support some new social networking features, but it doesn't work unless you living and working in Confluence all the time (such as in an intranet situation). Incidentally, Talknet.eu runs on Confluence but has been implemented quite differently from GovDex.
Here is other example of a private government social networking in the UK, http://network.civilservicelive.com/

Comment by James Purser

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 03:37:23 PDT

+++++++++++++++++

Comment by gordon.grace

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 02:20:55 PDT

Yup - it's a local government issue.

From the original post:
http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/08/suggest-a-dataset-ideascale-competition-part-three/#more-912

Feel free to nominate a dataset from any level of government – state/territory, *local* or federal.

Comment by alexander.sadleir

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:30:21 PDT

Geoscience already provide many "free" maps, including a 1988 vegetation map @ https://www.ga.gov.au/products/servlet/controller?event=DEFINE_PRODUCTS .
IANAL but the OSDM licence they provide seems analogous to the CC-BY-AT licence with the attribution being a copyright notice.

They also have an online map tool @ https://www.ga.gov.au/mapconnect/ but this isn't the same as what OpenStreetMap provide - you can't embed it or put placemarkers on it easily. Many government sites are relying on Google Maps or their own "slippy map" (or obsolete online maps even) so there may be a benefit to using/contributing to OSM or providing an equivilent service.

Comment by alexander.sadleir

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:15:30 PDT

Although I whole heartedly support this (I've been trying to build up the bus network for Canberra in OpenStreetMap) and have considered writing to ACTION about it once they get their Google Transit feed, isn't this a local government issue?

Then again, they have been sitting on that google transit feed a while (Google said it would be done by the end of june - http://google-au.blogspot.com/2009/06/google-australia-opens-doors-to-our-new.html) so anything to push them along is good!

Comment by dan mackinlay

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:06:47 PDT

The australian government may have already missed the boat here, to a degree. Yahoo also offers a similar, semi-crowdsourced placename service http://geobloggers.com/2008/05/12/yahoo-woe-where-on-earth-that-is-ids/ AND they release the data.

I'd be more interested to see the MAPS that government hold be released digitally. converting maps into a format that may be used as a custom layer in google maps or what-have-you is pretty easy these days, but finding maps that have appropriate copyrights for citizens to use is much harder.

Comment by j2.coates

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:30:59 PDT

Thanks Reem (Abdelaty?) - that's excellent to know. We just sent an email to the webmaster, but didn't get a reply.

If you know Bernard and the rest directly, pass on our compliments.

Comment by Michael Harris

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:18:50 PDT

Its a great idea, and the use of RSS feeds to deliver video information to the system would be the most efficient way to do so rather than having to enter the same kinds of data in multiple systems.

Comment by Michael Harris

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:17:32 PDT

Nice idea in principal, but the implementation of it would be difficult to say the least.

WA's Public Sector Commission (which took over eGov responsibilities after the last election) has grappled with this for sometime, and hasn't been able to find a way to come up with a single, consistent set of measurements that could be used to provide an apples to apples comparison for websites, as far as it extends to site usage statistics.

You'd also need to come up with a model to measure and capture expenditure data for each agencies online presence, and use this to somehow come up with a level playing field measurement for ROI, which is an even more tricky topic.

What WA has done however is implemented an annual reporting framework (data enhanced for FY08/09) to capture information on WA Govt. agency websites such as maturity level, compliance levels, hardware/software platforms in use, site lifespan and status, etc. That's one possible level which could be started from.

Comment by Michael Harris

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:10:50 PDT

I'd wholly support Craig's nomination. He does an excellent job of promoting egov initiatives and encouraging discussion around them.

Comment by Michael Harris

Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:00:42 PDT

Yes, yes, yes. And need we say that the US example of this (data.gov) is the perfect example for this.

Is there some resources/articles/links out there to show what people have been doing to make good use of the data from that site?

Comment by Michael Harris

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:53:39 PDT

Please delete, wrong category.

Comment by valeri

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:47:51 PDT

I was also thinking on something like it, with a IGoogle type of platform so can view what you really need and have the option of seeing other parts of your department. This makes me think of Google Wave as well. :-)

Comment by reem.abdelaty

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:47:34 PDT

You would be after Bernard de Broglio and the rest of the web team at Mosman. Outstanding work, and a champion for Local Government in this space!

Comment by valeri

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:38:17 PDT

I agree with Craig as well

Comment by tim

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:33:42 PDT

Having geocoded thousands of placenames for Mapping our Anzacs I would certainly be pleased to see something like this! Of course to be really useful, particularly in the cultural and educational sectors, the data needs to be historical, incorporating changes in names and boundaries as well as places that no longer exist. The crowdsourcing aspect could be particularly useful for this.

Comment by wpabrown

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:28:42 PDT

On the basic assumption that people devise policy,people implement and people benefit/suffer from the practical implementaion , could this project replicate http://www.theyrule.net/ so NFP know the people involved in decision making ?

Comment by Martin Cahill

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:21:52 PDT

Talknet.eu is a service run on behalf of European (mostly UK) local government. Again, this is based primarily on wiki technology so the profiling/ social networking features are limited. Still, it adds to the ever growing list of evidence that social networking is increasingly a central component in the world of work.

Comment by bryan.king

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:21:07 PDT

Good points all - esp. the comment about finding a way to relax those with the leather chairs. I think its the fear of the unknown, the fear of risks in a world that is changing, that drives the 'oldies' into reactionary behaviour, and that would be in large part what I would concentrate on in any 'education' campaign.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:14:28 PDT

GovForge could be used for open sourcing the development and maintenance any open standard/vocabulary/ontology required to support Gov 2.0 and Semantic Web.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:10:22 PDT

A "GovTube" or similar could be part of a broader Government Social Network.

Comment by Taskforce Secretariat

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:03:47 PDT

Hi Silvia,

We've moved your idea to the Brainstorming category.

Comment by Silvia Pfeiffer

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:01:59 PDT

Bummer, posted it in the wrong category. Maybe somebody can fix it - I don't seem to be able to change it.
Silvia.

Comment by David Tangye

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:00:59 PDT

OK anonymous issue fixed. Ignore this and m yprevious msg. I can't delete my own comments from here.

Comment by msweeks

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:58:19 PDT

A key idea in the whole Govt 2.0 debate I think. The intention is clear (and explicit in a couple of the other comments too) - making it a more natural and reflexive policy development practice to source ideas, discussion and expertise from a wider range of people both inside and outside government.

The idea too of using this model not just to discuss ideas already on the agenda, but to find ways to use this approach as part of the agenda-setting process itself, seems especially powerful.

Comment by msweeks

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:52:33 PDT

Actually Australia has a great social innovation tradition in many ways and in many fields, bute Craig's basic thesis is correct...we've probably need to refresh that legacy and, in some rspects, overhaul its focus and scope to engage with the Web 2.0 opportunities for mould-breaking social change and reform.

Comment by David Tangye

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:50:57 PDT

Hmm, that's interesting in a paradoxical sort of way - "openid" makes me anonymous here: DavidTangye@gmail.com

Comment by David Tangye

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:48:32 PDT

As a 55 yr old I could take extreme offense to Bryan's summary of 50+ people. But I don't, because to a large degree he is right.

Don't forget though that many of the baby boomers marched against the older generation - their own parents - re Vietnam etc, and sang Dylan's "Get out of the new world if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a'changin". They will be on your side. However, many of the more conservative ones played the institutional game, and joined the status quo. I daresay they are busily shoring up their little empires right now, with help from King Canute, against the tide of freedom that is now flooding in, thanks to you and the internet. Don't expect an easy time prising their fingers off the levers of control. People died in the 60's trying. Its all about power and wresting it from hands.

Or is it? Is there a better way to look at it? Better to sit them down over a nice warm cuppa and tell them they can keep their leather chair and the office by the window. All you want is free access to some public data that everyone knows they are custodians for, not owners of. Suggest that is probably uncomfortable for them to be sitting on that data, and that in future it will inevitably become even more uncomfortable. Extol the virtue of sharing, the elation of freedom from hording and taking ownership of "stuff", especially that they do not actually own anyway.

Last night I saw that 90% of Jim McAfee's $100M was now gone from his world and he never felt better; and that was wealth and supposed power that really was his to lose.

I guess I am saying that 50+'s know what change is, and know well what computers and communications are and can be, but many of those that seek power do so for themselves, and are therefore in positions of power for themselves. You need to deal with that, and with them. This is a human issue, and has very little to do with technology.

Comment by msweeks

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:47:03 PDT

Bear in mind too that the great ethic of Web 2.0 is "learn bu doing". The best training, I have found, is always grounded in having a go at using a tool for a purpose...a bit like using Ideascale and then learning how to leave comments:) But the basic issue is obvious - no good pressing the Govt 2.0 agenda without an eye to capacity and skills.

Comment by steve.bittinger

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:43:17 PDT

Some work is already underway.

See: "The Case for A Commonwealth Spatial Data Integration Platform"
http://www.cambridgeconference.com/2009_conference_information/proceedings/G%20Scott_Australia.pdf

http://www.cambridgeconference.com/2009_conference_information/proceedings/WS%20Spatially%20enabled%20Scott.pdf

Comment by cscoxk

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:38:41 PDT

Agreed that the payment for data is a separate issue. It was put in because it is a paraphrase of the current privacy principle that is the extension of the answer to the initial question. A "reasonable" cost of electronic retrieval is likely to be zero.

Government agencies are required to answer this question Yes or No but few of them provide an electronic way of answering and consequentially it is a long, tedious and difficult process to find out if an agency holds information or what it holds about me.

Comment by simonfj

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:35:29 PDT

Yep.
Here are the principles, and possibly the funding agency. http://www.socialinclusion.gov.au/Principles/Pages/default.aspx

Comment by cscoxk

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:26:09 PDT

Funding such initiatives can be achieved through the "zero interest loans" suggestion. The purpose of zero interest loans is to enable governments to easily specify areas where support is needed without having to get into the details of evaluation and selection. This can be left to the community affected through such mechanisms as a voting process similar to this brainstorming.

Comment by simonfj

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:20:49 PDT

There's a degree of truth in both Bryan's and Craig's perspectives. The point here is to experiment with ALL forms of media, both new and old. Whether feedback is elicited by email, snail mail or telephone; whether one is engaged through a printed brochure, web site or TV channel is not important.

Luddites and anarchists come in all ages, and every generation (and profession) suffers their stereotypes of another (as bryan makes known). But that's just evidence of a country's lack of culture.

People learn if there is a reason to learn. E.g. Read the last page of this submission.
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/proc/committees2/submissions/Sub02.pdf

Comment by cscoxk

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:13:10 PDT

I agree with Craig. This should be allowed where appropriate but it should not be a government function. That is, if an individual wants to have single signon they should be allowed to do so but it need not be provided by government.

Comment by cscoxk

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:08:13 PDT

Worried about intranets which by definition shut the rest of society out. Surely the idea of Government 2.0 is to open up government or am I missing something.

Comment by simonfj

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:03:49 PDT

Absolutely. Pia has done more in six months, on a shoestring, than any gov.au department could attempt. The main difference is that she has been willing to experiment. PS3# attempted what will become the norm in .gov and .edu shortly = distributed conferencing. i.e linking at least three sites together and streaming (in time, to a TV broadcast channel), then compiling the feedback into a report. As one of presenters highlighted, this has everything to do with (a perpetual beta) culture and very little to do with the tools used.

Comment by craig.thomler

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 08:00:26 PDT

Of course, a necessary prerequisite is an interest and willingness to learn.

This isn't always present. Some people are happy doing what they are doing within their comfort zones and have the expertise and experience to deliver the outcomes required without using new technologies. They are productive, successful and spread their passion across areas other than internet-related channels.

Of course as the environment changes, so do the pressures and citizen needs - however history has a constant theme that most organisations and individuals over time tend to freeze into set patterns and become less innovative and flexible over time. Reinvigorating the willingness to take risks and look at new approaches takes highly effective leadership - which can be in short supply and high demand.

Comment by asaletourneau

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 05:23:10 PDT

Would be great to 'join the journey' of government policy right at the start i.e the brainstorming phase and see how it shapes up after successive interactions between public and public servant. Be great to get young people involved with a process that delivers the possibility of change based on everyone having a 'say' in a robust discussion that moves policy beyond the confines of the Department of...

Comment by asaletourneau

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 05:03:59 PDT

Excellent idea Craig and quite timely as I have just put this in my 09/10 workplan as a professional development goal!

Comment by Michael Harris

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 01:48:08 PDT

What exactly is the problem with this idea? I would submit that creating some level of mandatory baseline gives both agencies and their customers an accepted list of minimums which they should provide to foster open government, plus give something which the sponsoring agency can take to C-level executives across government which they can market the benefits, opportunities and positive outcomes which can come from harmonising behind them.

Comment by simonfj

Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:31:31 PDT

A good idea, althoug I'd try and make it a bit broader and include a "media" manager's forum. One of the limtations we do have is that there is no experience of how old (broadcast) media and new (interactive) are meant to complement on another. I like the 'web manager uni' on the us site.

The other limitaton we have is that, as of now, there is no standard way to classify Communities of Practice, in the .gov or .edu space, so COP groups (all of which want to communicate with global peers) can be given a fixed spot on the web.

Comment by simonfj

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:59:39 PDT

OK,

Just to be clear, the site would use an "aggregation of tools", and a process which is flexible. Kate lundy is making an attempt with this publicsphere.
http://www.katelundy.com.au/2009/07/24/public-sphere-3-australian-ict-creative-industries-development/
But ultimately we're just talking until aph procedures committee undertakes a renovation.

Comment by James Purser

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:51:11 PDT

The "Intranet" is nothing more than an internal internet. In this context the Whole of Government Intranet would be a web that supported other projects such as the Government Social Network, Govdex, Web Managers Council and so on.

Comment by davidtangye

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:49:23 PDT

I vote for this, except do not think the government should be able to charge to provide information about me back to me. The issue of payment or cost of information is actually an entirely separate matter that should be addressed consistently across all government services.

Comment by James Purser

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:47:48 PDT

Govdex is limited to being a wiki/collaboration space rather than a genuine "Social Networking" site. Craig hit it on the head when he brought up Govloop as a model of any future Government Social Network.

Comment by simonfj

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:46:28 PDT

great idea. Let's note "support interaction within DISCIPLINES across government". The world bank calls them COP = communities of practice, which means the are NOT grouped by agency. These are groups which must span 3 tiers of gov, and align with a similar group from different unis (in time).

I still believe "the intranet" idea has passed its use by date, although its understood that the culture in Canberra is very different than in other aussie capitals, or lga's.

Comment by simonfj

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:36:00 PDT

This really is the crux of all gov2 initiatives. I agree with craig, start with the lightest OpenID and use an opt in approach. The main difference would be to have a limited nmber of agncies who provide authentication. me.edu.au would be one obvious one.

some reading; http://efoundations.typepad.com/efoundations/2008/12/the-apples-and-oranges-of-shibboleth-and-openid.html

Comment by simonfj

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:26:52 PDT

I was under the impression that this was the idea of govdex - https://www.govdex.gov.au/user/index.do

Trouble is, yu need moderators who will 'reach out'.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:50:46 PDT

GovTube, Govbook, GovBlog, Govickr. All sounds good!

Comment by Brad Peterson

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:48:13 PDT

A single portal for whole of government but with custom portlets applicable to individual agencies (local news/events/etc) is a great idea. A single intranet can also hold things like a single workplace diversity policy or conflict of interest policy which should be uniform across the whole of government.

Comment by Brad Peterson

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:41:16 PDT

PSMA already does this.

Comment by Michael Harris

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:31:39 PDT

I like the idea. While it wouldn't be as sinister as Intellipedia (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/11/2222244) it would have some real value in facilitating inter-agency communication and breaking down the collaboration walls.

Comment by Michael Harris

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:29:21 PDT

And let's use CBT (computer based training) to do it, with videos and interactive examples while we're at it too. This would be great as instead of multiple agencies investing in these training platforms, a single strategic investment could deliver this to everyone needing it with better efficiency.

Comment by Michael Harris

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:27:49 PDT

It may already be underway, but it's being done badly - a point I raised at the Perth forum a few weeks back.

Single sign-on systems will not work if, like the aforementioned implementation from Health and Human Services, customers:
- Are assigned random and meaningless credentials which have no connection to any existing identification numbers already used by government to identify them,
- can't retrieve these credentials easily
- don't receive timely service when credentials go missing or passwords forgotten.

I challenge anyone who already uses the service to try and retrieve their username details. You'll wait forever and a day to receive a response to their webform, there's nobody to call... you get the idea.

Comment by Ron Lubensky

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:24:59 PDT

I endorse this idea. I was going to post a new idea, but this one comes close enough to what I have in mind. In the spirit of collaboration, I'd just like to elaborate on it.

First, the open collaboration written about here is commonly referred to as "deliberation". Please refer to my submission to the Taskforce: http://gov2.net.au/submissions/ron-lubensky/.

In addition to the features listed here, may I suggest:

1. Some processes could step through discussion phases that help build and synthesise a solution or approaches to one. For example, articulate the real policy problem, enumerate past attempts to address it, identify perhaps conflicting societal goals, relate solutions to bridging those gaps.

2. Include a formal way for subject matter experts and stakeholders to inject their perspectives without overwhelming the participation of lay citizens. For example, include scheduled events when participants can chat live online to work through particular items together and view expert or stakeholder presentations.

3. Use trained facilitators, especially those who are members of the International Association for Public Participation (iap2.org, iap2.org.au). We need more opportunities for face-to-face facilitators to gain online experience.

4. For some policy issues that require broad creative input from across Australia rather than partisan contestation, use stratified random sampling to gain a demographically representative cohort of participants.

5. Compel Departments through Cabinet directive or even legislation to always use this method of public engagement, thus embedding deliberative processes in policy-making.

There are several projects underway around the world now to develop software platforms to support the kind of online deliberation described here (e.g. civicevolution.org)

Comment by gordon.grace

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:02:19 PDT

Crowdsourced placenames (international scope) with an API at GeoNames.

Example:
http://www.geonames.org/search.html?q=springfield&country=AU

Comment by alexander.sadleir

Sat, 05 Sep 2009 20:48:00 PDT

http://www.australia.gov.au/about/whats-new

Already being done :)

Comment by craig.thomler

Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:34:46 PDT

Would need to be careful to manage privacy concerns around information sharing and security concerns around identity theft. It could also be very expensive to build.

Why not tap into an existing system such as OpenID and make it an opt-in approach?

Comment by craig.thomler

Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:30:16 PDT

Fair point - and the ability to improve the data through corrections would be extremely valuable to all parties involved as well (something I failed to mention, but should be part of all data provision and agency processes - I know OpenAustralia occasionally finds issues in Hansard)

Comment by James Purser

Sat, 05 Sep 2009 04:17:22 PDT

Sounds like a plan. Both of these proposals cover different sides of the same coin.

Comment by James Purser

Sat, 05 Sep 2009 04:15:26 PDT

I was thinking something similar to GovLoop but run internally to Government. Hell have it be cross the three tiers, however keep it internal for the start, to give people the time to get used to the idea.

Comment by craig.thomler

Sat, 05 Sep 2009 01:30:52 PDT

Why not look at www.govloop.com as an example?

A similar Australian site was recently set up at OzLoop - http://apsozloop.ning.com/

Comment by alexander.sadleir

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:32:03 PDT

Ah! That's a much better term. I can't revise the title but I'll alter the wording slightly to better convey that idea.

Comment by James Purser

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:28:05 PDT

Yeah, a widget market could be part of GovForge. I would love to see the source code of these widgets (those bits that won't breach the copyright of the underlying application) available for improvement.

Comment by alexander.sadleir

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:25:14 PDT

"but to preserve privacy not go to individual address level."
Why shouldn't it go to an individual address level? That kind of accuracy is essential for many applications. For example, if I wanted to see how many doctors/child care centers/public telephones were in each electorate/census area/postcode and I had a list of locations as street addresses. Google Maps already provides geocoding (and reverse geocoding) down to the street address level. PSMA already provide geocoding down to the street address level via the Geocoded National Address File.

In fact, opening up the PSMA data would achieve this goal. This central source should also have scope for accepting corrections - the PSMA data isn't perfectly accurate at the street level but local agencies that know the area can quickly identify problems.

Comment by fionaeacameron

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:17:03 PDT

The Government Social Network recommended elsewhere could be a part of this - perhaps these two ideas should be combined?

Comment by fionaeacameron

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:09:05 PDT

I feel that the title to this suggestion does not convey its substance - could I suggest "PSI asset/interest register"?

Comment by craig.thomler

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:08:04 PDT

Note this doesn't have to be for opensource software only.

Why can't the government share custom-built functionality developed on commercial platforms across agencies using the same technologies?

I described this type of concept in my submission to the issues paper as potentially a 'widgets' market, where discrete code can be shared.

Comment by James Purser

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:01:35 PDT

Hi,

"I know there is a certain reluctance among some technology executives to seriously discuss open-source owing to a view that contracting support services is more difficult."

I'd be interested in seeing why they believe that contracting for support of Open Source projects would be harder than "closed source". To my mind, the fact that the code is open and available widens the support base rather than shrinks it.

"How important, as a driver for re-invention, is an inability to share (and market) code? What are some of the other drivers on the technology side of the equation? What are the business- or governance-side drivers of fragmentation?"

From the discussions I've had, the biggest problem is that people have is that they are unaware of the efforts other people might be making in the same area. A centralised GovForge allows people with similar needs and interests to get together and exchange ideas and knowledge.

"There is also a security/risk-management view that source code should be kept secret."

Keeping source code secret is never a genuine security consideration. Good code is a much better deterrent to attacks.

Comment by Aaron Osterby

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:47:19 PDT

That's interesting. A couple of questions to delve a bit further. How important, as a driver for re-invention, is an inability to share (and market) code? What are some of the other drivers on the technology side of the equation? What are the business- or governance-side drivers of fragmentation?

I know there is a certain reluctance among some technology executives to seriously discuss open-source owing to a view that contracting support services is more difficult.

There is also a security/risk-management view that source code should be kept secret.

How could a G2G code-sharing site solve for more than one of these issues?

Comment by Aaron Osterby

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:44:05 PDT

Comment by craig.thomler

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 18:13:29 PDT

As this was the first recommendation in my submission to the Taskforce (http://gov2.net.au/submissions/craig-thomler/) I heartily agree.

The New Zealand Draft Open Access and Licensing Framework is a excellent example of how to do this - http://www.e.govt.nz/policy/information-data/nzgoalframework.html

Comment by felixb

Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:46:23 PDT

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to post this idea anonymously!