New Comments : Web Directions South

Comment by sandy

Mon, 11 May 2009 17:14:05 PDT

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Comment by sandy

Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:58 PDT

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Comment by sandy

Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:53 PDT

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Comment by sandy

Mon, 11 May 2009 17:13:48 PDT

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Comment by me

Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:44:28 PDT

@Brad haha, nope, that's me.

@Nick mate, I can be subtle. :)

@Jake Miles and Myles. Notice the Y and I...Myles spoke last year on OpenAuth. I wouldn't even try to attempt that!

Comment by grant

Sun, 05 Apr 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Another person that would be great for this session would be Leisa Reichelt who has been doing some great work on Drupal.org and now the Drupal Admin UX in an agile (and open) manner.

http://www.disambiguity.com/drupal7ux-the-audience-matrix-evolves-and-you-can-play-at-home/

Comment by grant

Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I've also been working with Inspire Digital in a Scrum agile model. We've been implementing a number of UX and interaction design components into the model with varying degrees of success.

Some of our work has been based on the recent "UX and agile" report from Nielsen/Norman Group. I've spoken to Inspire Digital and they'd be happy for me to present our learnings in the context of the ReachOut.com project - so a very specific case study about how one agency is incorporating UX, user-centered design and user testing into a production process.

My thinking is that this would be a very open session, inviting contributions from session participants about their experience - less a "how to" and more a "this is one way to do it. this worked. this didn't. what's your experience".

Comment by grant

Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I suggested Joshua for last year as well - I think he would be a great addition to the line-up on designing for social interaction.

Comment by grant

Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Digital Eskimo might be a good speaker option for this kind of thing. They have gone a long way towards greening their operation, much more than just carbon offsetting servers etc. They have also put a lot of thought into "Design for Sustainability" in general. I'm sure they would come up with a good preso...

(Disclosure: I used to work for Digital Esikimo)

Comment by asaunders

Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I've worked inhouse as a designer for a film company and now a local council and would also like to see this topic addressed.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 31 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Steve

Do it as BOAF and I'ld go, for one.

Comment by tania

Mon, 30 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

If you wanted something less structured, what about coloured stickers or labels or feathers that are attached to name tags so you can find and hang out with people with similar interests during break times.

You could have corresponding coloured banners or flags at certain locations at the venue for people to congregate to casually meet up with others (or if you wanted to be really kitch, stick different coloured birds on sticks and let people choose a corresponding coloured feather for their name tag when they register). Just provide signs/labels as well for the 10% of colourblind males ;-)

Comment by maxine

Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Bear with me for a second :) Web Directions (probably like a lot of conferences), is a bit of a hybrid experience. The majority of people who attend are being paid to do so by their employer. So they need to be able to justify their attendance in a way that employers understand. They do this by pointing to the sessions and the speakers and saying "these people have been involved in all these amazing projects, and I'm going to learn x, y and z from them". And then they come along, and they do learn x, y and z. Which is great!

But then, what makes it even greater, and why people want to come back again and again, is that additional bit of inspiration they get from being amongst such a critical mass of their peers, connecting and learning from them. This is where ideas like yours fit in. They're a bit of a hard sell to the boss who is paying to the ticket, but they are an amazing add on when you do actually attend. So, we squeeze things like this in around the edges, or as the icing on the cake, if you know what I mean. Like I said, I reckon if you did this as a BOAF session (which I'd encourage you to submit it as in fact), you will get people coming long and make some good connections yourself out of it. Maybe it'll be the inspiration you need to then go and do evening events like this. Or, maybe you want to go all out and hold something like this as a pub night during the conference. I'd certainly be willing to help you get the word out about that if you did.

Have a think about it all and stay in touch - I think things like this are great community building activities and we are well into supporting them.

Comment by Stephen Rosman

Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I'm not sure if your (maxine) secondary point is about this idea lacking or having those properties. I would have thought that vision and networking pretty much described it.

Interested in running it? I might have been if anyone else was interested but, by the votes here, that doesn't seem the case.

Comment by maxine

Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I think Gary was trying to say that a lot of people come along to Web Directions with the primary motivation of learning new things about web design and development. They want content that they can take straight back to their day to day workplaces and apply it. Secondary to this, they love a bit of inspiration about why and how the web is such a great place to be working in at the moment - a bit of vision. They also want to network and make connections with peers.

There certainly would be people in our audience who have ideas like the ones you are talking about. And I think the One Minute Project Pitch would be a great "add on" to Web Directions. It'd work well as a BOAF session - I'm sure you'd make some great connections by doing it. It'd also work well as it's own independent event on one evening during the week of Web Directions when so many web folk are in town. Would you be interested in making something like that happen Stephen?

Comment by Stephen Rosman

Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Pay to see? I'd pay to participate. Why would I be *less* likely to pay for something participatory than something where you sit back and let someone talk at you? You may as well ditch the conference format and sell a DVD.

Networking event? Sure, absolutely - that's why I posted it under "Networking Ideas"

1 minute each? You seem to be arguing to make the time longer and also shorter. I would think it would work best as a rapid fire thing and if there's a lot of interest then people can always take it up afterwards.

BOAF? Whatever works.

The thing I'm not sure about is whether there are enough developers with unrealised great ideas (in their own minds I'm sure) who are looking for collaborators. That's something I was hoping to get an idea about from this forum rather than nitpicking about the format or where it would be held.

(I tried to edit this comment to sound less snarky but in the end decided to go with my strengths :-)

Comment by Micheil Smith

Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Yeah, and online interactive session planner would be great, because then it could also include where the sessions are, and what you need to bring to them (I've heard of a few web conferences needing laptops for a particular session.)

Doesn't SXSW have something like this?

Comment by micheil

Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

This would be awesome, you could probably also contact a few coffee bean suppliers in sydney or melbourne, to see if they'd offer beans, these companies have been recommended to me before:

Mecca Espresso (no website)
Sydney, 67 King Street / (02) 9299 8828

The Source Espresso, Sydney
http://www.thesourceespresso.com/

Brother Baba Budan, Melbourne
http://www.brotherbababudan.com.au/

Although, any barrista and bean that makes good tasting coffee is awesome!

Comment by grant

Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

These guys are at the forefront of web design in the UK, have lots of great ideas, and experiences, and engage well with the audience. I completely agree. If you haven't listened to the Boagworld podcast yet, do so.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

@Stephen - Consider this would you and your peers PAY to see this session where people pimped and pitched ideas.

In a way this type of event works well as the networking type event. As it feeds of the audience, with a lot of audience interaction. And in a way if you are not interacting it would be a little boring.

Also consider is 1 minute enough time. At 6 minutes each 1 min preso, 5 minutes of cross examination that's only 8 or so per session. Not a lot really.

This would be better as a Bird of the Feather breakfast IMHO.

Comment by Stephen Rosman

Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I thought "1 minute project pitch" sounded snappier.

I don't think you'd want to be voting on projects - people would vote by their participation. It doesn't matter if everyone except one person in the room thinks it's a bad idea if that one person decides to do it.

I can't figure out if you're (Gary) being sarcastic in saying that it sounds familiar - is there something like this already? I've seen a bunch of 5 minute presentation events but they've all been cool stuff you've done already rather than cool stuff you'd like to do.

(Some bugger's voted my idea down already - bastard! How is this a worse idea than "lets show everyone a film!"? How very web 3.0, everyone is a consumer again :-)

Comment by Gary Barber

Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Why not extend the time to few minutes, and have people vote on them too. If people are interested they can approach you.

Sounds familiar.. can't quite place it.

Comment by cindy

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I would love to see more focus on this aspect, and I think there are way too many components to look at as an informal discussion.

1. Recycled hardware
2. Power efficient hardware
3. Green powered ISP's, DC's & offices
4. Waste control
5. Recycling of hardware
6. Paperless society
7. Reduction of fuel use (airlines, couriers, work travel)
... just to name a few

The ITC industry has the opportunity to really rock the world's sox off when it comes to conserving the planet.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Mind you I have NEVER been able to get anyone to ever talk on contracts etc. Its like it's the taboo topic. I guess its the bread and butter for the Legal profession and everyone else is scared of the Liability issues. Pity.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

From my view, its about exposure to the CMS. Getting to see the Admin functions in use, and the tricks. Something that is going to save me time. Allow me to add or discount another CMS from my list of recommendations.

True a short overview doesn't help much at all, besides show you that it exists.

CMS Conference anyone?

Comment by maxine

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Do people really learn anything of value though from a 10 minute overview of a CMS? It's a pretty major decision, and I tend to think if you're in the business of making this decision, you really should already be aware of any information that could possible be covered in a 10 minute overview.

Comment by maxine

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I tend to agree with Gary on this. I think it's a great topic for a birds of a feather session, but has serious potential to descend into "blancmange" if it was presented as a panel.
By blancmange I mean "an amorphous mass with little actionable content" :)

Comment by cocolaco

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I hope that no one who has an allergy to acronyms stumbles across this topic. they'll get a dreadful rash.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Hi Dean

What is the chance of an Apple WWDC conference in Sydney, the southern hemisphere or even outside SF? Pretty remote, it would be great if Apple let an engineer or two escape and talk to people that do not make the annual pilgrimage to SF every June.

If we could pry Dave out of Apple to speak at WDS, I would be happy for Dave to talk about anything except maybe an Apple/Safari sales pitch.

I would be great it if Dave could talk about his personal opinion of the future direction of webkit and CSS3. I do not expect specifics, just the general direction and what problems Dave sees in the future. A few minutes on webkit and then a few minutes on CSS3.

Then maybe a show and tell, the various webkit CSS3 features, why they where added, where they are in W3C CSS3 working group, what the other browser builders think of them (these 3 you will get from the developer relations gang).

Followed by a how to get involved, how to help testing, how to suggest new features, etc.

If we can not get Dave, I do not want Apple developer relations gang doing a webkit CSS3 show and tell, John (or even me) could do a much better vendor neutral approach.

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

This would be interesting, but I have a sneaky will suspicion, leading from my own experience working with various agencies. All just had a clubbed together process that failed more times than not. And it was only effect due to the long hour put in by key staff.

In other words no one has the solution and we are all flying by the seat of our pants.

Hearing more tales of how it all fails for various case studies, in this instance does not help find a universal solution. In fact it teaches us very little, only that a process must be flexible.

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Okay I could see some narrow application for this for some freelance devs. But that is it. I can't see it being anywhere effective for front end development. Unit testing the front end is a completely different view. It's not a logical sequence that can have an automated test applied to it all. Besides making the design render within the limits of the browser, the front end is very much related to the subjective cognitive process of the UX. No automated process can take away from the people process.

Comment by chezza

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I'd maybe like to see this as more of a social element rather than a presentation.

Everyone is getting more and more interested - the success of the Green Drinks lately shows that everybody cares and wants to do something, but I'd love to see this more as a chat over a glass of wine, rather than a sit down presentation for an hour.

Comment by chezza

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Yeah process is a great one as I don't think there really is a standard process - I've worked with agencies that have all hacked together their own working models, all with flaws. Would be great to hear some of the good processes from agencies around Australia.

Comment by Moin Zaman

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

What about a timed competition at the end for some common tasks? See if the 'power' tool users really deliver?

Maybe:
* a fairly advanced CSS issue fix across browsers
* debugging a JS problem
* automating a sequence of actions on a page

Comment by Moin Zaman

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

What in specific about Accessibility did you have in mind?

Comment by wds.stephen

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I agree about the bag.

You need a bag to get your stuff to the conference - so you probably already have a bag and what you're giving people is a second bag. I couldn't even fit my laptop in the bag from wds08 - and it isn't a big laptop.

How about a document case? That would hold the flyers, could be put in the bag you already have and could be re-used to stop things getting crumpled after the conference is finished.

Comment by David Peterson

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

If you want to see the mother of all schedulers... check this baby out:

http://www.semantic-conference.com/2008/scheduler/

I actually used it to schedule my time and it was GREAT!!

Comment by David Peterson

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Man I can't say how important this is!! The early AM hit is the most important for me to get a productive day. And the WDS is a busy day...

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Don't know about an official event, but a Guitar Hero / Rock Band set-up during the breaks in one of the sponsors booths, similar to the Wii a couple years back, could be a pretty rad idea. (People still say rad, right?)

Comment by chezza

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I do love the tote bag I got at SXSW a few years ago and I use it daily - it's my grocery bag, beach bag, and while I was at SXSW it was my laptop bag too.

It didn't look cheap as it's one of the strong calico bags, it's enormous so really useful for everything and the fact that I still use it years later means it's a useful thing.

But do agree with the gender thing because I think scott left his in the hotel....

I'd be totally happy with a canvas tote bag.

Comment by chezza

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I WOULD love to see a session for audeince members on how to present well, especially as a lot of people attending probably do internal presentations at work, or are looking to get more into speaking.

I'd love to see a session from someone like Duarte Design (who I think wrote Presentation Zen or Slideology) on how to do a killer presentation...

Comment by chezza

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

How about thinking laterally - if we can't get chairs and tables due to the cost, why not give away pants to those girls wearing skirts so they can comfortably sit on the ground? :)

Comment by chezza

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I'd also maybe love someone to talk contracts and legal documents - what you need when, and what it should say.

I've just been burnt by having a very vague contract, which has cost both time and money, as I really had no idea what I needed to write into the contract.

As Gary says, not so relevant to the whole audience but a topic like this could actually save people money by having the right legal documents in place.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Guitar Hero - Another social event. Can we separate these too.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Having been contracting, freelancing and the like since the dark ages (1995) I really could have done with an introduction and what to do right or wrong for freelancing talk back all those years ago.

Like Cheryl I too have made all too many mistakes and wish someone, anyone would have pointed out the right things to do.

Even now I'm still finding things that I wish I had considered or taken an alternative approach to.

This topic will only be relevant for a small slice of the audience, however with a great deal of people trying freelancing it will be relevant.

Comment by wayde

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Great idea. Although I'd hate to see it turn into a slinging match.

Leevi Graham has my vote for ExpressionEngine.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Other topics could be:
Design: should it be pixel perfect in all browsers, browser support, etc.
Social media: what happens when the boss says we need to have a blog, or be on MySpace or Facebook, etc.

The aim is to find common problems/issues that effect most web developers and talk about how we deal with them.

The only reason I want to break it into topics, is because it is easier to manage.

I would envisage a 90 minute panel session, first 5 mins or so we introduce ourselves. Then start a topic. Present an issue, one or more panel members discuss how the dealt with it in the real world. Do 4 or 5 issues per topic, then ask the audience for issues on that topic.

Move on to the next topic, 4 or 5 issues, 1 or more panel members talk through their solution, questions from audience then third and final topic.

Depending on the topics and the number of issues could go Session 1 45mins, intro + topic one, break Session 2 45mins, topics two and three.

The issues need to be those of the audience, but the panel needs to be prepared. So a questionnaire/survey of attendees of the issues they most like discussed is required.

The panel needs to cover the broad demographic of WDS attendees. So far Ben, news.com.au big company, me slwa.wa.gov.au small state gov department, Gary freelancer radharc.com.au. I would suggest a couple of more people, one from a large government department and one from a small to medium business to get a true cross section.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Is not every night around WDS a beer tasting event ;-)

Each year there are more social events around WDS, we just need to make sure everybody from fresh faced first timers to grizzled veterans know they are on. Plus convince sponsors that this is a cost effective way to connect with Australia's webarati

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Well talking about the times you have to compromise from the grand vision of the "pure" web that so often is presented at conferences likes WDS would be very refreshing. A kind of "now this is the real story on how things are done"

It could be done as list of techniques, fallback positions or mistakes made in the past. More like a realistic view on implementing the web.

Accessibility is an interesting one as I have been asked several times to implement sites without a lot of the accessibility features. How this was achieved is the story here.

Mind you maybe there will be TOO much on Accessibility items overall on the program, but that's for John and Maxine to decide on I guess.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Ben works for news.com and Gary is freelancer.

I think Gian is suggesting "View from the trenches".

Correct me if I am wrong. Either individuality or as a panel, we talk about common issues, common problems, solutions and compromises.

It would be interesting to do one on accessibility.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I'll second that. Gian's recent work with WCAG 2 makes her a perfect fit.

Comment by jakesmith

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Nick Cowie would be good. He works in GOV from what I remember. Don't know Ben or Gary but like the idea.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Mon, 16 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

As soon as the AHRC say WCAG2 is the way to go (and truthfully what option have they got). This will be on hell of a hot topic particularly in the .gov.au sector.

A presentation and workshop would be good. If WDS don't have Gian do a WCAG2 workshop maybe EOTW can?

Comment by Nick Cowie

Mon, 16 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Having seen Gian strut her stuff back at WD06, a speaker I can recommend, knowledgeable and passionate.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

The man, the hair - In fact the hair SHOULD have its own speaking gig.

Seriously.. Lachlan would be good to give a realistic view on openness it's use within the web community.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

If the speaker wasn't too light on. I would love this.

But it's hard to get a speaker on this topic that is also a realist and not just a member of a radical green fringe.

Okay flame away.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

This is going to be so topical in the next few months. If you are creating site for a global audience you should still have a good handle on WCAG2.

Personally I would like to see Gian do a workshop as well as present. For me this is an instant ROI for my WDS dollars.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I think we are seeing a dev vs designer vote bias here.

Comment by JJ Halans

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Anyone doubting, please have a look at his SXSW presentation: http://bit.ly/FGvM (ppt file).

Comment by mathewp

Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I want to see a 'making of' video for his hair

Comment by john

Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I'm a big fan of Cameron, and he has spoken at WDN before. He is however the father of a large young family, and has scaled back his travel a lot of late - so it might be very difficult to get him out here just yet.

Comment by john

Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

I think a session or sessions on aspects of HTML5 would be essential. Things like offline apps, canvas, geolocation, web workers (ok some of these aren't strictly in HTML5, but you get my drift).

Rest assured there'll be sessions and even possibly workshops like this

john

Comment by Dean Jackson

Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

Hey Nick,

I'll ask Dave what he thinks. Generally though, we're not allowed to talk about future direction stuff. Furthermore, the engineers typically only present at Apple's WWDC conference - the rest of the time it's the developer relations gang (the same people that did iPhone Tech Talks worldwide).

In other words, you're more likely to get someone from Apple talking about current WebKit/iPhone tips/tricks/etc, which violates John/Maxine's admirable vendor-neutral stance.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PDT

@Dean, my preference would be for Dave to speak on the Apple/WebKit vision of CSS3, a run down on what is happening with their proposals in front of the W3C and what features are around the corner.

IMHO Dave would be wasted on a show and tell. Heck I could do it, or even better John. If WDS could pry Dave out of Apple, I want the high level, future direction stuff. Not the stuff I can get off a variety of blogs.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 08 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Twitter is the new facebook... :)

It's a nice idea, but really would I pay to see this debate, even with entertaining speakers verses learning something new or being inspired. I don't think so.

Having worked on both sides of the fence and now solidly in UX. I have fond that it's all a little pointless when you consider the big picture.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 08 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Well the Video segment would be all of 10 minutes if you stretched it. But a general show and tell of HTML would be handy. Something like a step off where Mike Smith left off at WDS08

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 08 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Jake. Myles Eftos did indeed speak at WDS08 on OpenID and Oauth etc.

Yes Miles would be interesting from a starting out Freelancers perspective.

Comment by Dean Jackson

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

I suggest "win a date with Lachlan Hardy".

Comment by Dean Jackson

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

+1 to sessions on extreme JS. While all the recent improvements in JS performance may sound like over-the-top nerd celebration, it will make a difference to what can be done on the Web in the coming years (eg. firefox's recent example of greenscreen on video). It also has a huge impact on what mobile devices can do.

I'm sure John/Maxine know the audience well - maybe these nerd sessions don't sell so well, but I'm interested.

Comment by Dean Jackson

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Is this topic something that really would be of interest to WD attendees? I'm not sure if it is supposed to be a vision for the future of CSS or an introduction to the new features in WebKit (which are making their way into other browsers, and really slowly making their way into the W3C CSS WG).

Maybe it works more as a workshop: how to use gradients, animations, reflections, masks, etc. But even then, it might come across as vendor specific even though these new features are not intended to be Apple-only in any way (obviously since other browsers use our code base).

Comment by john

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Really interesting that the session suggestion above is almost identical to this, but is rated right now at -12, while this is +13 - reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons;-)

Focus Group Guy: [after showing the kids some Itchy & Scratchy cartoons] Okay, how many of the kids would like Itchy & Scratchy to deal with real life problems like the ones you face every day?
[the kids cheer]
Focus Group Guy: And who would like to see them do just the opposite, getting into far-out situations involving robots and magic powers.
[the kid kids cheer again]
Focus Group Guy: So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots?
[the kids all chat at once about it being a great idea]
Milhouse Van Houten: And, also, you should win things by watching.
Focus Group Guy: [sighs]
Roger Myers Jr.: [turns off the mirror disguise in the window] You kids don't know what you want. That's why you're still kids, 'cause you're stupid. Just tell me what's wrong with the freakin' show!
[turns the mirror back on]
Ralph Wiggum: [starts crying] Mommy!
Lisa Simpson: Um, excuse me, sir. The thing is, there's not really anything wrong with the Itchy & Scratchy Show. It's as good as ever. But after so many years, the characters just can't have the same impact they once had.
Roger Myers Jr.: [turns the mirror off again] That's it. That's it, little girl. You've saved Itchy & Scratchy!
Blue-haired Lawyer: [holding out a piece of paper to Lisa] Please sign these papers indicating that you did not save Itchy & Scratchy.

Comment by john

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Interesting -why might an association with a company like Yahoo be a challenge? Afterall, when it comes to issues like performance, surely those companies really need to solve these problems.
BTW, Luke W directly above is also a Yahoo person (actually Steve's at Google now as noted). So, I'm not sure that's it (btw, there are a tonne of excellent passionate people at Yahoo, such as Nate Koechly, Christian Crumlish, Christian Heilmann, Doug Crockford, and many more, and they are very generous with their time and things like YUI).

Very keen to know why this is so lowly rated folks!

is it because the speaker is from a company? We really would exclude a great many folks if that were the case Is it because people don't see performance as an issue for them?
This kind of feedback is just so helpful for us in putting together a program and speaker list - so don;t let us die wondering ;-)

Comment by john

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Hi,

Jan's been on our invite list for some time - though is a very busy fellow.

Perhaps some of our audience writing to speakers like this saying they'd love to see them in Australia might well help our chances ;-)

j

Comment by john

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

we love Kelly here at WD - but she's had a baby in the last 18 months, and so it's been more of a challenge enticing her

but we do hope to get her back soon

j

Comment by jakesmith

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Everyone should get a bottle in their conference bag (maybe sponsored?) and then have refilling stations like I have seen at other seminars and trade shows. This way, good for environment, good for thirsty people.

Comment by jakesmith

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Brad dude, I'm not from WA. They don't have daylight savings, their shops shut at 6pm and nothing is open on the weekend. LOL.

I did meet the two Miles guys last year at the pub thing before Web Directions. Both of them would be good, didn't the other Miles speak last year?

Comment by Nick Cowie

Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Gary if WDS could get somebody from ABC, I would like to know why ABC went for distributed teams, how these teams interact, how need ideas/concepts spread through the ABC etc.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Brad, Miles is not that subtle ;-) the pseudonym would be something like Smirk Lebeu.

Though not for me I am chained to the man by super. Miles can enlightening and entertaining when talking about freelancing or the next step taking on "employees"

Comment by john

Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

we've heard of this hardy fellow - we might take a look ;-)

Comment by Hilary Cinis

Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Blog is now online at:

http://onlinedivas.blogspot.com/2009/03/designing-efficient-websites.html

Comment by brad

Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Jakesmith.. are you really Miles Burke in disguise? LOL

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

ABC would be interesting, but do know that they have a distributed team, one for each media vehicle. So it's a matter of getting the rigth people.

From the ABC news, tripleJ, 720 radio or whatever.

Comment by martinjy

Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Good idea. I'm also interested in others' thoughts on whether this role will thrive or flounder in the GFC environment.

Comment by jakesmith

Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Yes, this would be really interesting. Well done to GetUp for their work too!

Comment by Nick Cowie

Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

@John, yes I just heard about the CSS3 panel at SXSW. Opera, Mozilla and Microsoft but no Apple/Safari and they are team leading the way.

Comment by john

Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

this must partly be messaging - each year we've had banks of power boards available.

Will try harder (but also note their are all kinds of OH&S requirements to be met in this regards as to where they can be put - for instance a huge challenge in theatres)

Roll on 7 hour battery life

john

Comment by john

Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Dave's someone we have long been trying to get - As noted, Apple folks rarely speak publicly, so chances would be rather slim I'd say.

Comment by john

Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Thanks for the suggestion and comments.

the world of CMS is a really challenging one to address - there are so many, and so many different issues to address in turning to the question of which to choose. And ultimately, it comes down to products and their feature sets, not something we think our audience is particularly interested in.

It seems to me the better option is that vendors can come and demonstrate their offerings to the audience at the Expo - yes, they won't have an audience of several hundred in a single session, but for the say 50-100 folks in this situation, they'll have a lot of time to sit down and show how they meet the needs of those people.

j

Comment by john

Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

I do like the idea, but think this would most likely work better in a less formal, more social setting - a webjam or Ignite style evening event.

We're also interested in case studies from local developers doing interesting things - these would be more detailed show and tell type presentations.

thanks

Comment by john

Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

thanks guys for the comments, and mustafa for the suggestion.

Firstly, I'll not we have a full day workshop with Brian Fling coming to Sydney and Melbourne in April, which will definitely address the request, and some of the concerns expressed here.

Last year we expressly had a session with a lot of iPhone focus because it was very new, garnering a lot of interest, and dominating staistics in terms of actual mobile web use - we see it as a gateway drug for users and developers to the real mobile web ;-)

We'll definitely have mobile focussed content at WDS09, but we'll take on board these sort of suggestions and concerns of course!

john

Comment by kschelbach

Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Agree, but would need to be hands on, practical, how to implement a site that's wcag2.0 compliant - not just the theory. Maybe a half day session for people who are totally new to the standard, and the second half of the day an advanced session - the hands on, implementing it and putting the theory into practice.

Comment by kschelbach

Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Definitely the tote bag, cotton or some organic natural environment friendly stuff, something that's not going to mess up the planet for the next 500 years would be great.

Comment by ben

Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Tom would be a great choice. He probably has the right mix of vision and get stuff downness that would appeal to the audience.

Comment by ben

Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Personally, I think that in this environment some vision focused talks would be quite good. While the hands on current skills are great it would be useful to have some people talking about things down the track. Examples that spring to mind would be;
- Bruce Sterling
- Matt Jones
- Matt Webb
- Ben Cervany
- Adam Greenfield
- maybe Tom Coates
- Dan Hill (local to Sydney)

Comment by Nick Cowie

Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

Mobile Web Application Development is not the topic for a presentation, it is far too complex to pack into 50 minutes. The choice of platform would take 50 minutes: do you develop for web browser? Well what about the significant differences browsers, phones etc. Do you develop for the low end (160 x 240 pixels, monochrome, no javascript ) or higher (320x480, VGA, some javascript)? Browser differences too difficult what about a Java MIDlet, works on most phones? As long as telco lets it's customer download it ( big problem is US and Japan). What about phones that do not run MIDlets ie iPhone or could be done better using their own OS ie Windows Mobile. What about future OSes Google Android, Windows Mobile 7? Dealing with App stores, currently only Apple but Google Android and Windows Mobile proposed and Nokia will not be far behind and what about Blackberry?

If you did a web application dev talk without explaining this you are not informing people of all the facts and options. And if you did, how many at the end will want to build mobile web apps?

As for inviting Google, they will say the build mobile web apps for as many different platforms as possible. Also they have far more leverage than the typical mobile app builder with telcos. As for Japanese developers, they do what is required by the telcos which extert far more control than Australia.

The best solution for mobile websites at the moment is to develop a mobile specific site (with it's own domain m.whatever.com.au ) Concentrating on the content most used by mobile web users, cutting back the content not used and providing an interface that works in mobile browsers. That might be the best presentation to give people at WDS09 interested in mobile web.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 01 Mar 2009 00:00:00 PST

As an owner of an iPhone, I don't want to see another iPhone love in session. We are developing for the mobile world not one platform. I want to see someone that is basically platform independent. Someone what has cut their teeth on the mobile web warts and all.

Comment by Gary Barber

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I still love this breakfast idea, but 7:00 AM maybe a little to early after the night before... Going on previous WDS. Have three days of BoF as a bonus ticket say $80 for three day or $30 for each would be so cool.

Comment by Gary Barber

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@john

You know I have been considering that... maybe what I'm searching for can't be found.

In a way I guess from a design view I'm searching for something that become hard and harder to find. Or maybe its right under may nose... Mind you sometimes a refreshing change comes from left of field. It will be interesting to see what you have for this year.

Very deep.... maybe too deep.;)

Comment by john

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Gary,

maybe there's no one who would do the trick for you ;-)

We'll definitely have a well known designer, who we believe is both a fantastic designer and great educator and presenter - let's see if we can deliver this year.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Sounds better and better, each time new suggestions for Birds of a Feather sessions come up.

I would love to see it included in the standard WDS ticket, rock up to the venue an hour early, we will stick you on a table of people with similar interests and feed you (and hopefully provide quality caffeine).

And I think it would be a good icebreaker for day 1.

That said willing to pay up to $30 a day for half decent breakfast, coffee and the chance to chat with other conference goers on topics of mutual interest. On either or both days of the conference proper (and maybe even one of the workshop days).

Comment by Gary Barber

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Been thinking on this one.

It's a hard call.

A 90 minute session with three concurrent shootouts would be good on one afternoon

On the other why not try 3 x 30 minute sessions (25 minutes + 5 minutes question time) making up 90 minutes but run these as 3 concurrent blocks so you have 9 presentations happening in that space. 4 streams that's 12 speakers up in that space. This is especially useful for locals.

These can be as Nick pointed out short and sharp "How to" or just very practical tips sessions etc to uber advanced techniques. Personally 25 minutes is usually a snap to fill.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@gary @webdirections I don't know how many WDS attendees would benefit from a CMS shoot out. How many attendees will be involved in selecting a CMS in the next couple of years.

The alternative of tips and tricks workshop to benefit designers and developers who have to work with one of those CMSes, is likely to only benefit the few that work with more than one.

Tips and tricks for a specific CMS would however make a great birds of feather session.

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@webdirections Trying telling Govt here sharepoint is not a CMS, they have been solid by various partners on the platform. It's usually the primary corporate 'CMS' that I have to design for.

Could add the new Corporate Joomla to the list too.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Somebody from the BBC is also at the top of my wishlist, though I would prefer the head on online strategy for the why the did it more that how the did it.

Still the how we did it would be interesting.

An alternative to the BBC would be the ABC, probably one the most influential sites is the .au space.

I would like to hear from both the why we did it (and what we want to do next) as well as the how we did it.

Comment by webdirections

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm with Gary again, a medium- to heavy-duty CMS shootout incorporating flavour of the moment Sharepoint (not a CMS but moving along), govt fave MySource, US fave Drupal, EU fave Typo3 et al would definitely be of interest.

Comment by webdirections

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I agree with Gary, I don't care where they're from, I want to see things or hear ideas that make me think, 'I need to check that out'. There were a few dud speakers at WDS08 but I would assume there was feedback on that and those people won't be asked to speak again, regardless of where they were from or whether they have written a book.

Comment by webdirections

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm with Cam and Leah. The WDS program labels me a 'strategist', and it's true I'm most interested in what we should be doing with this web thing. Everything after the idea is just code. It's good to get design and coding ideas too, but the idea and the strategy represent the 'unique value proposition' and are what will make or break your business.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Gary

Dave Hyatt fulfils my two main criteria - knowledge and passion as for public speaking skills I don't know.

This was a "wishlist" request, because Dave works for Apple and the chances of getting an Apple employee to speak I believe are shall we say slim.

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Or maybe its a front end vs back end voter thing. Or the association with Yahoo.

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Nick

Okay I too know of Dave Hyatt, but is he good speaker. Will he deliver the goods. Is he just good on paper or behind an email. Does make the grade in front 700+ people.

Can anyone vouch for Dave.

Still it's worth consideration.

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Really if I want to learn about ASP.Net or Sharepoint than I would attend a Microsoft event like Mix.

It's not something I would attend at WDS, I expect vendor neutral solutions. If Adobe did the same on say Flex, I would say it was out of place too.

It's good that .NET devs are discovering standards, but the relevancy to me is very low.

Now that said a presentation on the interface and UX limitations of various CMS like Sharepoint, Mysource Matrix et al would be of interest - well to me. However that is a very specialised subject.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

My preference for a CSS3 presentation over CSS3 workshop, probably comes down to what I expect to get from a presentation or workshop.

With a presentation, I want to see new and interesting things, that might not be relevant right now, but get me excited so I go away and do more research/experimenting and be ready.

With a workshop, I expect to leave the session with skills I can use right now. A whole day on CSS 3, particularly the cutting edge of CSS transformations, transitions, animations and gradients which only currently work in webkit nightly's and maybe Safari 4 beta is not something I see as practical right now.

In 8 months time, if these CSS3 properties are supported in Firefox 4, Safari 4, Opera 10 and Chrome 2, with IE9 on the horizon then yes.

My idea for an advanced CSS workshop is not for the top 5% of CSS coders (like you or me) but to put the less skilled/experienced CSS coders on the path of becoming a CSS ninja.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Nick - true, but some of the properties have in general been done previously, you could gloss over them and move onto the sexy stuff.

If you sold it as a pushing the edge workshop you can then get to play more.

It's just people don't learn that well if you lecture them - they have to interact.

The progressive enhancement in general maybe just stating the obvious. Its a bit like Javascript you can't do all the progressive enhancement in even a day workshop, you need 20+ hours. But you can at least select out the interesting ones. The total fails can be sidestepped, just being noted.

So are you shooting down the workshop in favour of a speaker session, that you seem to shooting down too. As it's all IE9 (maybe) CSS properties.

Still think even just touching a few sexy new properties would be good.

In reality you need the presenter to be up to the minute on what's coming down from CSS3 WG.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

CSS transformations, transitions, animations, gradients, shadows (box and text), selectors and more I would expect in "Progressive enhancement with CSS 2 & 3".

Even as a 50 minute presentation "Progressive enhancement with CSS 2 & 3" would be pretty quick fire, with only a few minutes per property, ie demo, brief explanation, known issues, links to resources then on to the next property.

Even as part of an advanced CSS workshop, a 2 hour "Progressive enhancement with CSS 2 & 3" section. Would only allow a max of 10 or 15 minutes per major property and 5 minutes on lesser ones. No really enough time for a lot of hands on.

That would mean you need a whole day "Progressive enhancement with CSS 2 & 3" workshop to get a decent hands on experience. Personally I would hard time justifying a full day session on properties only supported by a limited number of browsers. Probably more suited for WDS10, with the release of IE9 due.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Folder - not a good idea. You are not going to open the folder much, your are likely to bin the entire thing. That's not much good for sponsors. I don't even open a folder from a sponsor why should I open the WDS one, I have the timetable on my lanyard...

Backpack - nice, again another bag. But at least it can be reused (I guess).

Tote bags/reusable shopping Bag - yes it is cheap looking, yes first timers will do a WTF, when they get it. BUT if the schwag is so uber cool then they will look at it and go, hey but we got this and this and this, and in a way it is these bits that they will remember not that bag. So it's not cheaper organisation wise as the cost saved on the bag is tranferred to the WDS branded schwag. Make sponsors double happy do the Tshirt too!

The bag is just for the conference. Making it reusable as a shopping bag is really enviro focused. Even guys need to start carrying a folded shopping bag with them when they go shopping. It's going to help stop that plastic tide.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Nice topic Nick.

If a workshop is done, it really needs to be hands on, no standing up lecturing in this.

I get the feeling that a lot more Advanced and Bleeding Edge skills are going to be added to this list before the conference. Such as CSS animation, gradients etc. This is an area I have been quietly pushing, but would like to see what others are doing to.

I guess we are bored with CSS2 etc and tired of the wait for CSS3.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I think you will find the ASP.NET and Sharepoint proposal voted down fairly quickly. because they are not technologies that the WDS majority (including me) use. And I do not want presentations that are no value to me, replacing presentations that might be of value to me.

That does not mean that ASP.NET, Sharepoint and related technologies should not take advantage of the gathering of the tribes that occurs in Sydney with WDS. For either a grass roots or Microsoft lead effort to have a on the Monday or Wednesday before or even Saturday after, to have half day or full day with a few ASP.NET, Sharepoint and related technologies presentations and bird of a feather sessions aimed at WDS attendees.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I can not agree more with Nick. There was only a few Internationals last year that where exciting for me. They just didn't seem to respect that the Australian audience would be (in part) on that edge and in many cases be their equal in knowledge on the subject. Even if I know the subject, show me a different slant, make me think, engage with me.

I really don't care where the speaker is from, just no sales pitches, show me things that make me thing, make me go - I need to check that out. Make me come out of the conference hall full of questions.

The presentations have to be special, WDS is special its a regional highlight, not a backwater conference with some hicks.

John and Maxine know to well how I feel about this.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Maxine any chance of changing the topic of this post to "Advanced CSS"? Because that is what it about.

The suggestions are based on what I spent time learning last year. I would be willing to present on Progressive enhancement, there are others better for the other topics.

Comment by Ben Buchanan

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Obviously I think this is a good idea - as Nick's already observed I've been keeping a map for this exact purpose :) It would have been a big help to me back when I was a visitor too.

It could be as simple as a small forum or wiki for people to share info on accommodation, etc. Including things like "this hotel books out x months in advance..." and "at the Vulcan, if you're a light sleeper make sure you get a room at the back of the building where it's quiet".

Comment by maxine

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Ben - allowing choice is another thing that John and I have spoken about this week - I forgot to mention it yesterday. The main problem is that so many registrations come in during the last month, which is well beyond the time when we have to put the order in. It's hard enough as is to predict how many of a single item we need, without producing too much wastage. Adding in choice would certainly add to that wastage, or lead to a lot of disappointed people who didn't get their choice :(

Comment by maxine

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Nick this is a great overview of what would be the useful type of content to cover in a session on CSS.
Further ideas from others much appreciated as well!

Comment by maxine

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I really like this ideas as well.
Pretty easy to implement I imagine using google maps in such a way that anyone can add tagged locations. Then I could make sure the page was available from the main site, send it out to the attendee database etc.

Comment by maxine

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Fringe events for the main conference are extremely welcome!
In terms of within the conference itself, we're working on facilitating a Birds of a Feather breakfast that would have similar outcomes to what you are describing here.

Comment by Sean Curtis

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Gary would you also include things like recommended Hotels/Serviced Apartments that have reasonably priced (or free) wireless/wired internet access? Coffee shops/cafe's with wireless? Locations for computer/tech shops in case people need to pick up a particular cable/tech bit?

The more I think of it the cooler I think this would be - and you could pretty much do this for any city in the world. It'd be like a Lonely Planet Guide but covering Geek stuff...

Comment by Ben Buchanan

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@gary: Heheh wifi's a whole other debate, innit? :)

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Thanks Nick, these are cool and good for us WDS vets, but what of the new people that have no idea and are not in the know. What do they do. Lets embrace and help them to become part of the full WDS scene and culture.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Gary there are a few unofficial maps floating round, here is the ones I used last year:
Ben's http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=100029231314306531557.00000111cae4d836f33c1&ll=-33.873266,151.206894&spn=0.016426,0.037937&z=15
Drew http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=106089859594261325288.00000112214b9b3ced9f5&ll=-33.908035,150.99472&spn=0.525423,1.213989&z=10
Mine http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=100452498551163694290.000438e56d8e28bc8002b&ll=-33.879398,151.20286&spn=0.016425,0.037937&z=15
which needs updating.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Massive ups on this one.

Power at the conference center is just un-heard of, age of building I suspect. A charging cloak stand with a volunteer manning it would be cool.

Plugs would have to be gaffer tapped down, but still a good idea.

Next you'll want full wifi. :)

Comment by Ben Buchanan

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Maxine - is it actually feasible to let people choose at registration, or are the logistics prohibitive? [extra thing to organise, higher unit price for each option, etc]

But if people were given the choice, that would mean their first impression isn't made on the day - it's made when the conference lets them choose. So it removes the chance for new attendees to see something that might look cheap (which definitely isn't desirable for any event).

I think the "not another bag" issue is probably mostly a problem for regular conference goers; who I'd imagine are also more likely to be early bird regos. Maybe an extra benefit of early rego is the ability to choose :) Plus if the bag's really shmick, people might end up regretting the opt out.

It is hard to get away from the current system, really.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Could work with intermingled with Birds of a Feather. Maybe do it on the Monday at a not so big venue, something reasonable and cheap :)

Comment by maxine

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

OK, at least I now understand why this one was being voted down :)

I kinda think it goes without saying that we seek out the very best presenters we can get, and that we give them a lot of support during preparation. More each year in fact. Last year I sent out what I thought was a great document to help speakers get the basic right. This year I'll be adding to and improving on that document. I also saw presentation drafts from those speakers that got them to me, and gave feedback. I think this was worthwhile continuing as well.

Any practical ideas on how I can get the best out of novice speakers much appreciated.

Likewise, Gary - would love to hear the names of the people you are referring to in your comment! Sometimes people don't put themselves forward, so it's hard for me to hear about them.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

While this thread has tossed around a bunch of ideas, I'm not really sure we're any closer to a workable alternative to the laptop style bag.

Option: tote bags/reusable shopping style bags
Some claim would be more used than a laptop bag - as they are the kind of thing you can make use of having a few of them - in the car, the office, at home, etc etc.
Question: would men use them at all? 60% of our audience are men.
Question: would they look cheap, in particular to "new" attendees. About 70% of people who come along each year have never been to a previous WD event.

Option: no bag at all, I'd like a t shirt instead.
We can't run an event like Web Directions without sponsorship. For all the back and forth we can do here, sponsors have certain standard expectations of what they get for their money, some of which it would be extremely hard to divert them from, no matter what our arguments might be about what attendees want, thinking of the environment and so on. A very standard expectation is that a sponsor is able to put flyers and hopefully even nicer stuff in front of attendees eyeballs while they are sitting there alone in their seat on the first morning on the first morning of the conference, when they go back to their hotel, when they go back home. Ideally, sponsors have special offers, competitions and so on included here, and this is obviously something we encourage. But, getting back to my point, we definitely need to provide "something" in which flyers and other schwag can be given to attendees.

Option 3: what about a folder of some sort for all this stuff?
A folder probably does leave a smaller environmental footprint than a laptop bag, but...
Question: would it actually be much more likely to end up in landfill pretty quickly
Question: as above, would it look cheap to new attendees
Question: if we go with folders, and then a sponsor comes along and wants to put something like a coffee mug, a set of small pencils, a beanie, etc etc in there. what do we do?
To me, the folder solution really is just accepting, "this is all just paper junk".

So, where we at on this?

Comment by me

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I was goign to say the opposite to Cam Pegg, in that I'm interested in small to medium web company business. From freelancing to running a successful web studio with a number of staff.

Maybe have a day of targetted freelance and the other day of larger enterprise for the management/strategy stream?

Comment by me

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

It's be even greater if we had a standard spot to put Twitter usernames - make it easier to find other twitter folks.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

This year I will definitely be getting in touch with all the speakers and asking them for their opinion on who their presentation is for. I actually think it will be a question that will help people focus their mind on addressing this.

Additionally, as I have for the last couple of years, I'll be encouraging more high level rather than introductory sessions.

Comment by john

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm interested - there's quite a few nay votes for this - is it the topic, or the suggested speaker?

Am I missing something?

Comment by john

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

WL,

we did pretty much exactly enviro sacs in 2008 at Web Directions North.
This year in Denver, we did recycled material backpacks - a lot of people loved them as they weren't your regular conference bag, but still very usable, attractive, and environmentally a bit more sound than many such things.

Comment by liz.juniper

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Awsome idea. They did this at the opening of the World Trade Centre redevelopment project in Melbourne. It was a great idea and everyone was happy to queue up for a little while for free coffee, so it ensured a big turnout for their presentation. I think they had about four carts with two staff on each cart. I would love to see this at a conference.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Tara would be interesting for some of the WDS delegates. Not for others.

This speaker voting here is skewed Eg - you will get some speakers appealing the front end people, that will voted down by other audience groups and visa versa. If it was nominated which audience group people where voting with this would give John and Max a better picture of the popularity.

Comment by WL

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

How about providing envirosax? http://envirosax.com.au/ A few of them will be great.

Comment by priscillabriceweller

Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

How about one of those calico shopping bags instead? You can never have enough of those at home, and it means you have somewhere to put all your conference goodies in while at conference :)

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

However don't underestimate the potential awesomeness of schwag. But yes, something other than a bag please (unless you can flip a switch on it and it turns into a Segway or something. That would be nice.) All hail the schwag. :)

Comment by dchun

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Absolutely and Roger would be just great!

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

What about a software version control system shoot out too.

Comment by Gary Barber

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I think we have cover this one off on the other threat - Let's lose the boring conference bags

Comment by Rosemary Lynch

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Do you want a session at WDS09 on "Effective visual presentation tool tips for presenters"? I don't think a web conference is the correct place for this particular topic. With any luck the speakers will have done their homework before arriving!

Comment by Rosemary Lynch

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I think we should get the speakers to "tag" their topics! (As we do on sites such as Flickr and Delicious). The speakers could include any relevant tags for example: technical, introductory, designers+developers, code, microformats, online-examples, documentation, practical-implementation.

Tags that indicate the not only the angle the topic is taking but also the level of expertise.

Comment by Rosemary Lynch

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Great topic Kay. If a schwag bag is deemed to be necessary then a range of tote bags/ conference bags in environmentally responsible materials can be found here:

http://www.envirogifts.com.au

I think if we can simplify, reduce papers, re-use or recycle the bags that would be cool.

Maybe participants could indicate if they want a schwag bag in the first place and opt out. I don't need more "stuff."

Comment by Gary Barber

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@peter I had to google who Michael Boulton was; you sure that wasn't a secret longing there. :)

No MARK Boulton usually offers a different slant on design methods and ways of approaching design. Mark I find always has a refreshing way of bringing in stuff that is left of field.

Comment by kay.smoljak

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Like the dev power tools, this would make a good panel (like the JavaScript frameworks panel last year).

Comment by kay.smoljak

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Peter Michael Boulton? Are you trying to keep people away??

I've been fortunate to hear Mark Boulton speak and he's excellent. He would also be good because I'm sure he could deliver an "advanced" session with a design slant.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

There are plenty of topics that would make shorter sessions. I could mention sessions from previous WDSs that could of been done in half the allocated time.

It is a more work to compress a talk in 25 minutes, than it does to stretch it out to 45 minutes.

That said I who find it easier to present a CSS tips and trick session in 25 minutes than, 45 minutes. Example, quick explanation, the code, further reference, next ....

45 mins at that pace would wear me out

Comment by Nick Cowie

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Don't know what happened to my last comment. It was supposed to read

But most of all to interact with other attendees, while the last presentation is still fresh in their mind. I find this is where I get the most value from WDS, bouncing ideas/theories/concepts/problems with my peers.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Start 10 or 15 minutes earlier and end 10 or 15 minutes later. Not to have more sessions or make them longer, but to make the breaks in between them a few minutes longer.

So you can get a drink of water, coffee if you get the cart/s, take a walk or toilet break. But most to interact with other attendees, while the last presentation is

Comment by Nick Cowie

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I am another one who does not need another laptop bag. Yes I do use my WD06 bag occasionally when I want to take my netbook and not my laptop and trusty crumpler. But there is another half dozen conference bags in my wardrobe that don't see the light of day.

I would be more than happy with a canvas tote or even a paper bag for the schwag. I still have a heavy duty paper bag, I got at a conference 4 years ago next to my desk that I dump schwag into to sort at a later date. So it is getting more use than those fancy bags.

All I want from a conference "bag" is to carry my schwag that I want to keep and does not fit in my laptop bag back to the hotel.

If you could keep the conference schwag down in volume, a cardboard folder would be great. Actually a cute well designed cardboard folder would make great reusable schwag.

Failing that I would be happy with an over the shoulder tote bag.

Comment by Ben Buchanan

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'd be happy with a shopping "green bag" done in a neat design (just not pink, ok guys? gender stereotyping and all ;)). That would get used to destruction; plus I could transfer the shwag to my existing bag and not spend day one carting two bags ;)

I did use my WDS06 bag as my daily for a year (it was a good bag!), but eventually had to switch to a backpack for other reasons. But yeah after a while the event bags do collect.

Maybe go with the shopping bags and give the option to buy a tote (or a backpack, hint hint ;)).

Or balance the shopping bag with a give away of a small number of *very* good bags, like the one-off crumpler back in '06.

Comment by Peter

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

At first glance I thought the title was Invite Michael Boulton.

but Mark would be good too.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

got to agree with Gary, full day hands on workshop would be the way to go.

Comment by Ben Buchanan

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I definitely support this idea. I did end up having to bring a bottle along though, you really can't take glasses into the theatres. I refill it from the jugs though, lessening the environmental scourge :) Even if they just keep a single drinks table going at all times it would probably be enough.

Comment by Ben Buchanan

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

The logistics are certainly a challenge, although I love Nick's idea.

Like a few others I would certainly be happy to pay for a good espresso, catering coffee just isn't the same :)

I can certainly vouch for how nice it is to have a free barista on the go at a conference though. Aussie web geek loooooove their coffee.

Maxine - I definitely support the idea of buttering up Single Origin ;)

Comment by 200ok

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

A very broad labelling system would be good, even just two levels would probably do - normal/hard or light detail/heavy detail. Or even just "normal - no prior knowledge required; and detailed - prior knowledge expected".

Comment by Nick Cowie

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

there was a trivia night in 2007, just a normal pub trivia night invaded by WDS folk. Was fun though, got to met some more WDS attendees prior to the day

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Would like to see this as a full day workshop, not just a single presentation. Something that was more than a talk fest. Lots of hands on interaction etc.

Comment by JJ Halans

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Sorry to have to miss him at Webstock today, in New Zealand.

Comment by JJ Halans

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Ah yeah, was in August actually:
http://www.webdirections.org/uncategorized/geek-trivia-night/

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Maxine

I bet there is more waste in conference bags environmentally than those drink bottles. I bet the venue just throws the lot into general garbage. So maybe have recycle bins for people.

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

John

Arhh bluetooth, that flaky thing that I could never get to work..

Some of those micro video records roaming around could be just as good. easy to upload etc.

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Was there Web Triva in 2007.. huh I don't remember that one.. JJ more info please.

Comment by malendariel

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'd be interested in hearing their experiences and work methods just to see how it differs from those of us that work in design companies.

Comment by JJ Halans

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Steve's no longer at Yahoo!, but at Google now...

Comment by Hilary Cinis

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Looks like Steve Sounders no longer works at Yahoo! (I'm at Yahoo!7, just did an internal search to check). He's now at Google according to his site:
http://stevesouders.com/bio.html

Yslow is key to both back and front end design at Y!

Comment by JJ Halans

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I remember they are always very popular at Barcamp too. Great to meet new people and mix ideas one-on-one.

Comment by JJ Halans

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm with Kevin Yank on this, allow early registered users the choose. An extra incentive to buy early.

Comment by JJ Halans

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Or post dimensions/template(s) of generic nametag, and we can make our own at home?

Comment by JJ Halans

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'd like to hear Steve Souders from Yahoo! talk about this. I loved this short, to-the-point book on the topic.

Comment by JJ Halans

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Geeks too shy to want to appear on video? We hide behind our twitter posts.

Comment by Gary Barber

Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I would have loved this 3 years back. Now not so much, but I can see a need as there was then.

Logistics with respect to registered day care people and liability are usually the issue.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Kevin, in my opinion the value is not in different people presenting different sections, but giving the audience a broader view of the topic.

I know you can give an entertaining and informative talk about using CSS tables for layout.

But would the audience learn more from:
1. You giving a 45 minute presentation?
2. You giving a 30 minute presentation, then two of your peers give 5 minute critiques and it finishes with a 5 minute right of reply from you.
3. The three different CSS layouts methods are demonstrated. Showing, strengths, weakness, tips and tricks.

I would probably learn more by 3 but that is my learning style.

If Maxine wants more on CSS layouts we can always have two 45 minutes sessions: 1. as theory and 3. as practical.

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

thanks for the comments there Gary!

I wouldn't so much say "overseas is better" - in fact, not at all, but given the hugely larger size of presenter pool if you can draw from more or less the whole world, as opposed to just in any one country (in particular a smaller country like Australia), it's clear that with this increase, then the chances of finding a fantastic speaker will increase.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm really sick of this Overseas is better crap. In Australia we have some very talented and entertaining speakers. Some that just can't get exposure due to the constant stream of international speakers that various conferences scramble for instead of looking for a local alternative.

Sometimes the international speaker is worse imho.

I marked this down, why? Well I feel the Presentation standard overall has improved 1000% over the last 5 years. I do attend and speak at conferences in other sectors outside of the web industry. So I have seen a lot of bad presentations, In comparison to the ones at WDS, they are totally Death by Powerpoint. The presentations at WDS have overall been of high quality. Okay once of twice there have been some speakers that where not up to par. This is a hard call for John and Maxine, but maybe a speaker 101 kit could be handed out to all speakers, just to remind them of the basics and who the audience is.

Also Presentation Zen doesn't work with some topics. Fine for Management presentations, but you have to use it with caution.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm not able to have of hand conversations with Eric, but he has of late be defending MS a little to closely on his blog posts around the track. Posts that in my mind where almost PR spin. It may not be Erics intent. Sadly all I have to go on is the posts. It's nto intended as a Negative comment on Eric, he is doing good things, I just don't see them as being a benefit to me personally in extending my skill set / career etc. And reality that is what it is all about.

I know MS have to play a dangerous middle game to keep every one happy. Not going to discuss on that here, I'll be here all day - we can save that for a few beers.

What would really be looking for is a designer that is going to knock my socks off. I have not found one in last 6 years, yeap I'm a hard man to please.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@john long as there is no bluetooth stuff ;) ... Personally I like the interactions that make people talk to people. Not that I have an issue doing this without the prompt, but I know others do.

Comment by Kevin Yank

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Personally I believe this would work best as a presentation, with time allowed for questions and feedback at the end. Nick’s list of points to touch on is about right, but I’m not sure of the value of splitting them up between multiple speakers.

I do already cover drawbacks like source order dependency and how they should factor into your decision of which layout techniques to use for any given project.

Happy to provide a detailed outline of the talk and slides as they currently exist.

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

as long as it's not werewolf!

But seriously, we are definitely working on some ideas along those lines. One of the goals for web directions is always "show, don't tell" - so we like to incorporate the use of the technologies that folks at the conference are talking about as part of the event.

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

a session concept I've been keen on for some time is "secrets of the debugging ninjas" - looking at tools and techniques a number of highly experienced developers use.

I guess the important thing is that it goes beyond a catalogue of cool tools - firebug, xray ;-) etc, and more to workflows and techniques. So, based more on "here's a common problem folks have" (say layout problems with IE compared with other browsers, JS performance issues) and then "here's what I do to help me solve that" - so we see the tools in the context of the problem solving.

Would potentially be a great one hour high paced session methinks

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Maxine and I differ a little on this, and indeed, the difference seems to be along gender lines to an extent.

I suspect that on the whole, blokes wont be big fans of the tote idea, but women much more likely (yeah yea, gender stereotyping, etc etc, but it's how the results stack up below more or less!)

But, before we come up with a solution, I'll try and restate the problem, as articulated by Kaye and others.

1. We all have laptop bags - so they go to waste - gimme something I can use!

Which I think is largely true. Now, we really go to a lot of trouble and expense to get nice, good quality, non crappy bags. And we do see past years out and about at events, and even on the train!

Next, here are the kinds of challenges around this for us

1. when we get in the order of 1000 made, the cost adds up very quickly.
2. we really do need something - it's simply expected at an event like this. Also, sponsors and other supporters want to distribute things to the audience (schwag as well as printed matter), and the way to do this best is via a pre stuffed bag.
3. we don't want something crappy and disposable. I think we hit that well to date, but of course, if you already have a laptop bag, then it is pretty much disposable, unless it's better than your existing one.

So, what to do?

In Canada in '08 we used reusable shopping totes with a great design by the happy webbys guys. In Denver last month, we used recycled material action backpacks (folks were wearing them snowboarding after the conference).

But as soon as you step away from a classic laptop bag, you have fashion issues - yes, even geeks have fashion issues!

The kind of thing that appeals to women on the whole won't to men (yes yes, see above re gender stereotyping).

So, what to do - appeal to one sensibility over another?
Give people a choice?
Same old same old?

But of course, the beauty of crowd sourcing id the crowd is smarter than me (which is a VERY good thing!)

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

stay tuned folks in the coming weeks for an announcement that ties in with a lot of the comments here. In a sense we do have a 4 day conference - if folks choose two days of workshops.

There's also been the IA conference the weekend before WDS these last couple of years, which makes for more on, and of course, all the various formal and less formal meetups, jams and so on.

In terms of costs, it pretty much scales as a function of time - 3 days would increase costs pretty much 50%. I suspect that would impact attendance no small amount. And sponsors and exhibitors also feel that 2 days is more than enough for them, which is a consideration if we are to have an Expo (which has been really well received these last two years by attendees - if it hadn't been we wouldn't have done it again).

But, as I said, we are working on some concepts that we'll be announcing soon - stay tuned!

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Moin,

I think it is a great idea.

anyone keen on throwing together a proof of concept :-)

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Indeed a great suggestion - we've been trying to get John for some time! There'll definitely be one or more speakers of John's stature in the JavaScript/Ajax arena this year!

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Gary,

is there any evidence for that assertion? It's never remotely occurred to me to characterize Eric as such.

There's certainly a lot of folks sitting down and working with MS - I personally do it in a number of ways (on an essentially 'volunteer' basis, quite separate from any other relationship we might have with them).

Why? MS has definitely shown the desire to return to the fold in the last couple of years (and I'm really not concerned why, but I know a good many folks particularly on the implementation side who are and have always been important advocate for the open web).

Folks like Eric, Aaron Gustafson, and many others, have definitely worked hard to try and ensure that the steps MS make with for example IE8 are the best possible outcomes for all stake holders.

We had Eric keynote in Japan last year. There's still few folks with as broad and deep understanding of the web's technologies, and processes around than Eric, and scarce few who can articulate this nearly as well.

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

We also actually did something like this last year - via mobile phone, and it was accessible via a bluetooth server at the conference and a youtube channel. Might have been a bit ahead of it's time!

And given the iPhone's essentially non support of bluetooth, a good many attendees couldn't actually access these while there :-(

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Once again, talking about challenges :-) But here goes

International speakers are extremely expensive. We tend to look after our speakers far far better than just about any event will - which is only fair and right. At an event like WDN, we can for a reasonable amount bring in 100% big name famous speakers.

In Australia financially this is not feasible, but as importantly, we wan t a lot of local flavour and opportunity. Some of these folks will be speaking for just about the first time. For some English isn't necessarily their first language. But we work hard to ensure what they have to say is relevant to the audience. And, if you attend a lot of conferences (locally and internationally) as we do, you'll probably know that a good many even well known presenters aren't necessarily very good.

Stephen, I'm hoping that the -5 is because people don't actually think this is a big problem at our conferences - I'm biased, but I think the standard of presenters at WD events is very high.

I guess the other thing to note around this is that the audiences for each session are very large in comparison with most events you'll attend - at a minimum 200 plus, and up to 700 or so for keynote sessions - an intimate approach really is a challenge in that environment.

All that being said, it's a definite goal for us to help the folks who speak at WDS do as good a job as possible - by ensuring they understand the audience, their expectations, and so on, and even to the extent at times in providing some coaching or related support to hone skills. To us a big part of the reason for the conference is to promote the local industry, and members of it.

Comment by Hilary Cinis

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I've been thinking more about this... I could put together a full preso on the topic, and definitely have an open discussion included.

Comment by john

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Hi guys,

great suggestions again. Sorry if Maxine and I seem to keep coming across with all the challenges and so on associated with various suggestions, but we do want to flag these so that folks understand (and hopefully can help us work round) these when they exist.

Video is a particular case in point

1. A lot of speakers aren't too keen on it, as this is their IP,and may well be something they'll do more than once. It's been expressed to us on more than one occasion that speakers have concerns about whether videos would diminish the value of their presentation at other events. Mind you, when we first started podcasting there was also this concern expressed, and now I doubt many speakers would think that
2. it is really very very expensive to do, and do right. If we did a crappy job of it, it would be a net negative. With 4 tracks, and well over 30 hours of video to be shot, and edited, well, you'd be looking at tens of thousands of dollars to get it right.

Mind you, we are definitely looking at a range of options, and video is part of that conversation

Comment by leah.maclean

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm happy to pass on the satchel as it would just end up donated to the local charity. Would be happy with a cotton tote (something mor enviro-friendly than cotton would be nice tho) or even a brown paper bag and definitely interested in trading the bag for a tshirt.

Comment by leah.maclean

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

With the management/strategy stream there is not just the enterprise/corporate level working on the web but also a siginificant number of small business people. These people are working on and with the web and want to learn more about what is happening, how to make better use of it, what is real and what is hype. Unfortunately there are very few opportunities for them to learn at web-focused conferences as most of the presentations are aimed at designer/developers or corporate IT/web types.

Even if small biz type topics aren't included in a stream there might be an opportunity for a pre-conf workshop.

Comment by Guy Leech

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I entirely agree with the no boring speakers thing, but I imagine it's very hard to tell with a lot of speakers if they will be good or not. Some of the big international speakers have a reputation, and you can check out their conference vids, but for locals with little or no exposure, it can be a bit hit or miss.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I don't think a dinner discussion would work, you have to up the price per head for food. It cuts into the social events for the evening. If you get a lame table you are stuck usually.

Lunch is just way too short.

Breakfast however is possible. Besides Molly's talk in 2006, the breakfast talks have not worked.

But an informal BoF, with no speakers getting up at all, sure they can come, but they are just live the rest of us, the great unwashed.

Breakfast is a critical meal for me, I have to have a good breakfast, so I'm willing to pay $30 for a filling but simple breakfast.

The problem with a BoF really comes down to time. If it works well, the discussion can be so intense that the 90 minutes of so allotted can disappear very quickly.

Best held on Day 2.

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Snooka - no issue, get him on the plane. :)

But can Eric really contribute to the discussion these days. I was under the impression he was just a Microsoft mouth piece now. (sorry Eric)

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm in Sydney anyway that week, so filling all the days is a no brainier. Mind you as a freelancer I should be restricting it :)

Understand Maxine's view. Maybe we can extend it another way. Birds of the Feather Day, Power Web Geeks Panels or the like.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@maxine a separate session on CSS2/CSS3 that you can use now, will help fill you quota on CSS sessions at WDS

Comment by Gary Barber

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Tshirts present the style and colour issues, mind you if you plan and cost from the outset, and lock that in, collecting that info is not an issue.

Maybe a black WDS09 hoodie.. that would be cool.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

@Maxine how long do want to give for Kevin to give a sermon on the wonders of css tables for layout;-)

CSS Layouts could be keep to under an hour.

5 to 10 minutes on old school floated layouts, with examples, when to use them when not, why the work etc.

Another 5 to 10 mins on absolute position layouts, again with examples, when and where etc.

Then give Kevin 10 to 15 minutes to show CSS tables layout and briefly say why they are great. Give me or somebody else 5 minutes to point out why will not be using them for at least a couple of years.

That should give 10 to 15 minutes for questions, further demos, the panel to fight amongst themselves etc.

@really, I don't want to hear browser companies talk technology, I want to here people talk about techniques that can be used.

As much as I admire Eric Meyer, the average WDS conference goer would get more bang for their buck (ie 55 minutes of their time) from Kevin, John, me and a couple of other giving a relatively intelligent discussion of the options for using CSS layout now and in the future.

Comment by susan.macgillivray

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Yeah I tried the disabling notifications but I am still getting bukkitloads of spam. No worries. I just delete delete delete ;-)

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Agree with 'cocolaco' about video-taping every session (I think one of the Future Of.. conferences did this). This way I wouldn't feel bad about missing a session due to a conflict with an other good one. The podcasts are okay-ish but many dont work without the slides. I find video presentations (or synced audio with slideshare) are great substitutes for actually being there.

Comment by Hilary Cinis

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Thumbs up for the tote and I'm all for t-shirts :) Please can we have a girly-style option and sizes?

Comment by Hilary Cinis

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm a UX designer and I've posted a speaker suggestion that covers this very topic. I worked with a very talented front end developer for a few years, who is brilliant and his experience is right up this alley.

Comment by kay.smoljak

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Oooh @really - a cardboard folder for the schwag and a tshirt, sign me up :)

Comment by really

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Anyone who can talk about the 'inspiration to launch' process for a working project will get my attention.

Daniel Burka's presentation last year was an excellent example of this type of talk
http://www.webdirections.org/resources/daniel-burka-interaction-design-case-studies/

More like that!

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Great idea, and agree that it would be best as a separate social event so it doesn't eat into precious conference time. :D

Comment by Hilary Cinis

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

hiya, yep I have some direct experience with this topic and have strong opinions on it based on it. Not sure if it's enough for a full preso but maybe a discussion panel?

Comment by really

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Agree with the request for better talk descriptions. Some of the descriptions for WDS08 really disappointed ... for example: http://www.webdirections.org/resources/david-peterson-semantic-web-for-distributed-social-networks/

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Great idea! Personally, meeting new people freaks me the heck out, but I know that it makes things so much more fun when I do, not only during the conference but also keeping in touch throughout the year, and putting faces to the names you see popping up in comments all over the web.

I'm not much for playing games, but I'm sure there's something that could be done, like trading cards (or maybe digital assets like an exclusive icon collection - collect em all!) or a scavenger hunt/checklist style thing with a prize tied in with a sponsor.

Comment by really

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Another vote-up for standing tables

Comment by really

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Like @Mikey, my WDS08 bag is my everyday bag too.

What about an official WDS09 t-shirt?

Comment by really

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

This is what what happens when you start your idea off with a negative

Affirmation comes in the form of vote-downs :)

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Yes, after the last WDS08 laptop bag (which is now my everyday bag) I don't think I need any more. :) Having said that, I still think there should be a useful big-ticket schwag item to take it's place, although I can't think of any right now... Hmmm...

Comment by really

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

We shouldn't be selling layout techniques using CSS table properties ... which bring back the original source-order dependence issues.

CSS layouts are still in a very early stage of evolution ... ain't nothing revolutionary on the horizon yet.

http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/02/17/wanted-layout-system/

Why not turn this into a tech-panel on the CSS layout ... at this stage of the game I'm not sure that the answers lie with any one person.

Get Eric Meyer on this panel :) And someone from all the browser groups?

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Over my career I've been the sole web guy in an ISP, a regional newspaper and city council, so I'd be interested in this one too.

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I think the Win/Mac/Linux aspect could be to show alternatives for the different OS users, rather than trying to get people to switch.

Just as an example, many Mac users can't live without their Textmate bundles, but not many Windows users realise they can use e-texteditor to get similar features. Like a best-of-breed for each OS.

It's a bit subjective, but it would provide plenty of passionate discussion for a panel format as people share their faves.

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I don't have a problem being away from the office for 3+ days as I usually spend the full week in Sydney when I'm there for WDS anyway. However I usually spend the extra days catching up with friends and family. With stuff like Webjam on the Sat night and the Port 80 get-together, I think there are plenty of external events to keep things going. Frankly I'm a little tired by the end of the week, so I think the conference itself is just right when combined with all the other stuff that goes with.

Comment by malendariel

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Might as well add Eric Meyer to that list too

Comment by Nick Cowie

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Puts hand up, no quite lone I have a part time web designer and systems/network person who knows his way round PHP and databases when I can get him away from his other work.

But the front end developer is just me.

Comment by Moin Zaman

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Not really, Gary. The Dev power tools would be very broad. This is specific to front end optimisation which I feel is a topic by itself.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

This is close to the Dev Power Tools proposal

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I agree with the breakfast suggestion. Nothing against the breakfast speakers of previous years, I think these sessions would work better as a dinner-table-style discussion rather than just eating breakfast while someone important talks at us. The "Birds of a Feather" concept would fit this perfectly, IMO, and would be cheaper than usual (up to $30 could be good).

When taking registrations for the breakfast, you could maybe ask which crowd we'd like to hang with (design, php, rails, business, etc) to help with seating arrangements.

Comment by natalie.ward

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Definately - tote or canvas reusable would be MUCH better than another LAPTOP bag I wont use

Comment by mathewp

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Is the problem that people are interpreting this as 'there will be a speaking slot about effective presentations'?

Comment by stephen.lead

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I don't understand why this suggestion currently has a rating of -2. Do people actually want to see boring presentations?

I thoroughly agree with a "how to present" session before any conference.

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I was a big fan of the large ice barrel filled with soft drink cans and water bottles a couple of years back, however I think it may have been provided by a sponsor. I still think it could be a good offering for one of the major sponsors.

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

That's vote up for the tall standing tables from me. I felt glad to stand during the breaks and also enjoyed the social aspect of being around a table. The seating provided by a couple of the sponsor booths (beanbags ftw!) was also a good idea and could be encouraged for this year.

Comment by Mikey McCorry

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I agree that a better indicator of target audience is required. There's a quote from Zeldman (via Cameron Moll's recent blog post) that says "One of our little backstage maxims is: 'Attendees will apologize for not understanding a talk, but will want an apology for a talk that’s too basic.'" and I felt a little bit that way last year after a couple of sessions.

Nothing against the speakers, but I think that having been to WDS a few years now, more sessions on advanced techniques or about how to apply the knowledge we have in new, exciting ways wouldn't go astray.

Comment by dchun

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

a developer can never have too many tools

Comment by dchun

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

hi Malendariel,

this sounds like a great idea. i would be interested in leading a session where participants look at ways of adding to the Web Directions community itself. Is this the sought of thing you had in mind?

Dannielle
see:-
http://webdirections.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/13683-3030

Comment by malendariel

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Are tote bags like the ones you buy from Woolies to carry your groceries in?

I really like my WDS08 satchel bag thingy - I use it daily to carry stuff to/from work. I can see how you could accumulate a lot of them by going to heaps of different conferences though.

Comment by Guy Leech

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

If you go to your profile and hit 'Edit', there's an option down the bottom to disable all notifications. However, it's not working for me, but you might want to give it a go.

Comment by dchun

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Hey Mathew,

I'd be very interested in what you had to say?

Am currently working two days a week for the Department of Health and have faced a lot of the issues you plan to address.

We all need help in finding ways to shift the average workplace into adopting new technologies.

Cheers,
Dannielle Chun

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

This can be such a hot topic that it is bound to blow out on time.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Hey Susan, apologies for this, I need to look into it, as I'm finding it hard to get to the bottom of it myself. Is there an unsubscribe link? I can't seem to see one myself, but that may be because I am a moderator.

Your patience appreciated in the meantime. One suggestion though: why don't you just get all the mail from this going directly into it's own folder, so then you can choose to look through everything that's been going on at your leisure.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Tote bags, totally like the idea. I haven't taken a bag for a conference in about two years now. Or if I have been forced to the bag has ended up being left in the hotel room after I left. So something I can use afterward would be ideal.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I actually kinda like this idea!

Interested in building it Moin? Fame is there for the taking :)

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Anyone got some hands on experience with this they think they could turn into an instructive presentaiton?

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I really like this one too! How many of you are there out there?

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I definitely think this would be an excellent Birds of a Feather session.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Yeah, I think this is just a given too. Anyone got any ideas how we could make it even more interesting though?

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I like this idea! I know lots of people actually do love collecting our bags, but I also think it's time to try something new in this regard.

How would people feel about those canvassy-cotton tote bags?

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Do people think this would work best as a presentation or a panel? Would there be enough in there to make a 2 hour panel session? Would there be too much for a one hour panel? One hour goes very quickly. What do you guys think?

I do think we need to re think the way we deal with CSS at the conference - something like this could work really well.

Comment by malendariel

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Maxine - can you email me the cost of sponsoring that cafe booth? I may have some contacts that could be interested.

Would you have to pay the venue in order to place some beanbags/cushions in some of the more open areas where people were sitting last year? The beanbags/cushions could be a sponsorship opportunity also...

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Yeah, I was thinking the same Kay - re the speaker - but then, this is kind of counter to the whole point of a BOF breakfast - you don't have a lot of time, and the main point of it is people talking amongst themselves.

My feeling is that most people wouldn't want to pay more than this either. The room and food will be expensive though. I think I would have to charge $30 to $40. What would people think of that? Or more, what would people want in terms of entertainment and content if we were charging that much?

Comment by Dmitry Baranovskiy

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I wonder who (and most importantly why) vote against? Would be nice to hear.

Comment by Moin Zaman

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Maxine, I think its more like being able to plan and arrange exactly which sessions I'm going to to and have that available to me either online, via handheld devices or just to print.

This personalised schedule won't show the session's I've decided I won't attend.

This could also help you get a better estimate of the numbers attending any particular session.

The mini schedule on the back of names is great. What is being suggested here won't replace that.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I like the idea of this too.

Don't forget though that you are dealing with an audience with a large percentage of "power users". I would hate to waste a session on showing off a whole bunch of FF extensions that everyone in the room used on a daily basis. It would be tricky to get right, but not impossible.

I don't think the Windows/Mac/Linux thing would work so well. People have kind of made their decisions about this sort of thing - I just don't think they're going to be very influenced by 20 minutes from even an absolute gun coder.

What do others think?

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

John Resign is a very good suggestion indeed.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Yes, it would be totally awesome, but, my inbox groans every year with people telling me

1. they don't have the budget for the reasonable amount we charge already

2. they want to know how much it would be to come for just one day, as they can't take any more time off work.

When we get a bit bigger again, I actually do think we could look at creating a more "modular" event, with different "themed" days that people could choose from. But with the size we are now, it kinda has to stay as two days of workshops and two days of conference.

Anyone out there from a large organisation: how many of your team could you let away from the office for a full 3 days?

Comment by kay.smoljak

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

For breakfast - maybe $15-$20? Then again, I'm not generally a breakfaster, I'd be happy with just coffee.

In order to make a birds of a feather session look like good value on the registration form, I think you'd have to have one of the "rockstar" speakers leading/guiding the discussion.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'm trying to understand what people are really after with this one, because we already create a Microformats version of the schedule that can be sucked into calenders (ok, it's always a bit glitchy and never really works properly in Outlook or whatever Windows users use :), and we also have a mini version of the schedule printed on the back of the names badges so you can quickly access this info without even turning on a device.

But, there's obviously something "more" that people are wanting. Is it just getting the Microformats calender at our site to actually work? We can certainly try that :), though my latest info is that it won't work for Outlook users as this is an Outlook problem.

Or is it more that people want to get excited about thinking about the sessions before the day, plan out what they are going to see.

Thoughts?

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Having worked in this role in a past life, I would love to see how folks now get over the problems I used to have.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Yeah, I'd really like to make some form of this work.

Kay's comment about having this at a different time than lunch is really worth considering I think. The Thursday evening is kind of taken up with all kinds of things from our opening night reception to Webjam and so on. But lots of events do Birds of a Feather breakfasts and I think this idea has real merit. We'd hold it in the same room as we had the Thursday night drinks last year. However, we *would* either have to charge for it, or get sponsorship for it.

How much extra would people be prepared to add on to their ticket price to attend a birds of a feather breakfast? You guys let me know that and I shall go off and come up with a costing :)

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'll be speaking to the venue about this *again* and asking that water in jugs and glasses be available at all times throughout the day, including on the benches in those two smaller rooms.

We won't be providing bottled water. It's an absolute scourge on the environment I would be reluctant to participate in, and I think unnecessary if there are jugs and glasses.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

This is probably the single major drawback of this venue.

Option 1
Rent additional nearby space in the venue and have loads of tables and chairs for people to sit down. Most likely put a lot of the expo stalls in this space as well. As John says, we would have to sacrifice 3 or 4 international speakers to pay for this. Well, not *actually* sacrifice them :)

Option 2
Last year we offered an "Internet Cafe" in the area near the western doors as a sponsorship opportunity. Had someone taken this up, it would have provided seating for maybe 30 or 40 people in that area. That's a lot of people still standing up, but, probably worth doing still, if someone wants to sponsor it.

Option 3
I do like the sound of these bar tables. I will get in touch with the venue and see where we could have some of these. I think it's a really good idea. I'll also look into more seating around the walls. However, this has been discussed in the past and I have a feeling that all the places we are allowed to put seating already have seating. You're not allowed to put them in front of those paintings, for example.

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

We'll be doing everything in our power to make proper coffee happen this year.

Here's the thing though. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would consider any sort of payment (even Nick's inventive crowd control idea) to be incompatible with sponsorship. The way I see it, either we make it revenue neutral (ish) from our own point of view by getting people to pay for coffees, or we go all out to get sponsorship for it, and the coffee is free.

I certainly think the second option is the simplest, though it does carry the risk of long queues. Perhaps we need to structure the sponsorship package so that we can have 3 or even 4 coffee carts.

Perhaps I also need to start going downstairs and making friends with the guys at Single Origin :)

Comment by maxine

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

The number of votes this topic is receiving shows that it's definitely something that we need to think about.

I've been reluctant in the past because it can in fact be very difficult to establish detailed information from speakers before the day.

I think this year I will be asking them for concrete feedback on who they think their presentation is for.

The larger problem that happens here though I think is that a lot of sessions are maybe being pitched at a little too introductory a level. This is again something I'll be discouraging at Web Directions this year. People *never* complain that something was too hard for them (especially if it was a well prepared and presented presentation) - if they're interested, instead they will go away and do a bit more work on the area. They *often* complain that something was pitched too low.

Comment by Paul Hempsall

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

While I'd LOVE for this to happen, it's difficult enough to shuffle workloads for a 2 day conference, let alone 3 days or a week.

Also, for those not in Sydney, this adds considerably to the associated costs for attending the conference (ie. accommodation).

With many organisations/businesses (including my own workplace) focusing on trying to reduce expenditures this year, I'm concerned that this may strain budgets and affect attendance numbers.

That being said - it would be AWESOME, wouldn't it?

Comment by rob.hoehn

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Sounds interesting! We'd be happy to contribute (IdeaScale) comments, thoughts, feedback.

Thanks.

Rob Hoehn
IdeaScale.com

Comment by kay.smoljak

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I was kinda disappointed at the lack of cold caffeinated drinks - coke and the like - especially needed as the coffee wasn't really drinkable. I ended up at the shop most breaks to get my fix.

Comment by kay.smoljak

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I don't think a seated lunch would be a good idea, but fold out chairs, inflatable chairs or Rosemary's tall tables would work well I think. Seated lunches stifle networking and conversation, I feel.

Comment by kay.smoljak

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I've been to birds of a feather sessions at other conferences where they are held at the end of the first day and in the early morning of the second day. These times are more relaxed than lunchtimes, I reckon.

Comment by kay.smoljak

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I like this idea, and think that absolutely there should be "hard" or at least "conceptually advanced" sessions. I always look for sessions "above my head" at conferences - I don't want to hear stuff I already know.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Guy: bit hard to travel with a empty drink bottle, still its an option :)

John: the range changed during the days too, that's a big no no.

Comment by kay.smoljak

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

A certain other conference in another state was fortunate enough to be sponsored by a top coffee company, who provided coffee, milk and staff as part of their sponsorship package. You could try approaching this or other similar companies.

Nick's coupon idea is outstanding too.

Comment by Gary Barber

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Thanks Kay, I have lots of ideas on this too. It could also work as an interactive panel. Could be made very entertaining as well.

Comment by kay.smoljak

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Good idea! I see two parts to this: getting leads and landing jobs. I've got a lot of ideas on both aspects.

Could this work as a birds of a feather session, with people sharing their own experiences and suggesting ideas for other people?

Comment by john

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Ahh Kevin, wait 'til you have kids ;-)

But seriously, we'd probably look to have it

1. sponsored supported
2. a nominal cost per child

The key thing is to see whether there'd be the interest/need

john

Comment by john

Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

words have been had about water!

The drinks going away thing I think is so they stay cold. Strange are the ways of big venues!

Comment by john

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Great suggestion Nick!

Comment by John

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

last year we gave serious consideration to inflatable seating in the schwag bag.

As with so many things, the challenge is all about cost. Separate seating for lunch for the conference would come to the same price as one or even two international speakers!

But, we'll definitely look to address this is interesting ways - keep the suggestions coming!

Comment by Peter

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I think you can unsubscribe to each thread.

Comment by Peter

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

could be a whole BEST OF series... Best voted CMS etc...

Comment by Nick Cowie

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

700 caffeine addicts looking for an AM hit is enough to scare even the toughest barista.

So you need to control demand at peak periods, my suggestion is give everybody a couple of tokens in their swag. Then charge more tokens say 5 per coffee for morning and afternoon breaks, 2 during lunch and 1 during sessions and you can always change the cost depending on demand during the day.

Makes those tokens a desirable and suitable reward.

Comment by John

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Hi OpenID,

with most venues, including SCEC, they must provide absolutely everyone and everything when it comes to catering and similar services. That's all the way down to the brand of soft drinks etc.

Comment by Gary Barber

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Cool Idea.

This would make an excellent panel.

Why stop at the Devs, bring in the designers too for a rapid fire shootout of tricks and power tools

Comment by susan.macgillivray

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Ooh I agree with a full week. Mind you I probably couldn't go but great for Sydneysiders and others that could make the full week.

Comment by Kevin Yank

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Absolutely! Of course, the ticket price must remain the same. ;)

In all seriousness, I’m not sure how a 50% price hike would strike the conference-going market at large in these uncertain times. For my own part, I would almost certainly pay it.

Comment by Guy Leech

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Well there is always the whole fill up a bottle at home and bring it..

But yes, more water would be great.

Comment by malendariel

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Fantastic suggestion Dmitry! I would love to go to a JS workshop put on by John and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Comment by Gary Barber

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

So make it a week!, Monday, Tuesday - workshops - Wed - Fri WDS, Sat party/recover

Comment by malendariel

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I went to 2 workshops at WDS08 (Derek Featherstone and Douglas Crockford) but niether took this approach. I learnt a hell of a lot by going to their workshops, but they seemed more like lectures than a workshop.

Comment by Dmitry Baranovskiy

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I am pretty sure we could find speakers to fill this one more day. :)

Comment by malendariel

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

That's an awesome idea Kevin!

Comment by Kevin Yank

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Given the savvy Web Directions audience, it might make sense to retitle this talk “The Next Evolution of CSS Layout”.

Comment by Peter

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I don't think it is that much of a nuisance just would have been nice to have seen it fade out.

Comment by Peter

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Brilliant idea, being in the IT sector I'd assume that the majority of people are caffeine addicts.

Comment by Nick Cowie

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

As long I get to a right of reply as "Everything You know about CSS is Right!" ;-)

Seriously, a great topic for a panel discussion. Should you only use low common denominator CSS (ie IE6) or start using modern CSS for browsers that understand it.

My position is no to CSS tables properties but yes to others.

Comment by lisaherrod

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I'd be happy to pay, especially if the lines weren't ridiculously long :)

Comment by Kevin Yank

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Thinking laterally, what if the conference bag had fold-out legs that turned it into one of those little camping chairs?

Comment by Gary Barber

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Isn't this just a given.

Comment by openid

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

worked for WDS07 as well, not cool enough to of used twitter for WD06

Comment by Guy Leech

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I've fixed up the drop shadow (mostly), but auto-hiding the pop-up would take some potentially serious hacking that I, quite honestly, haven't got the time for. Sorry.

Also, the whole thing uses tables for layout. So there's plenty to fix up ;-)

Comment by Jachin Sheehy

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Make that another vote for a personalised, mobile-device-friendly schedule.

Don't bother with a print version.

Comment by Jachin Sheehy

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Good workshops tend to work like this anyway. Perhaps workshop leaders can specify if they will take this approach in their workshops as part of the brief.

Comment by Rosemary Lynch

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I think it is a great idea if there is a way to guage how many people would make use of it. Are there any existing services nearby that could be utilised? Certainly I know of women juggling web plus kids in the Sydney region who have not yet attended previous conferences.

Comment by Guy Leech

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Yeah, good point - it can't really be 'Hard' if it isn't hands-on, really. You get the general idea though.

Comment by Rosemary Lynch

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

After sitting in a session I'm happy to stand for lunch. Some tall stands/tables would be great as informal gathering points. Stand around and chat but still have a spot to place plate and drinking glass.

Comment by Kevin Yank

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

For me this goes without saying. It worked great at WDS08.

Comment by openid

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Perhaps consider approaching some of the hospitality colleges to supply the barista's. It gives them valuable experience and may enable access to govt. funding. You could include some sort of voting system for the "best barista" of the conference perhaps.

Comment by cocolaco

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Print? what's that. How about a drag & drop list online that you can edit and save. Handheld-device-friendly.

Comment by Gary Barber

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

And you could add those fancy Microformat thingies and have it suck right into your calendar.. How novel ;)

You could also have a social link up site too operational way before the event, that really rocked in wds06. Or at least create a group for attendees on linkedin or the like.

Comment by Kevin Yank

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I agree the panel sessions rocked, but I felt the two-hour format was a bit long. From my perspective, the panels didn’t really get going until the second hour. With a more constrained timeframe, panelists would need to dive right in and make their points more briskly, and I feel it would lift the entire experience.

Comment by cocolaco

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

1. Better descriptions of the talks, made as far in advance as possible.
2. Video every session so that everyone knows they're not actually missing out if they miss a session - they can watch it later online.

Comment by Gary Barber

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Totally Agree.

Last year, between defined breakout area sessions (morning, afternoon tea and lunch) all the drinks disappeared. Like we where bad children that would STEAL them.

No water either. And if it way it was in jugs and glasses, not the best thing to take to seat.

You know what really works. Bottles, have stacks of them, water diet drinks, fruit juice etc leave them out for people during the entire conference day. Costs, but stops you having to buy water to take to the conference like I did last year.

Comment by Kevin Yank

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

The ideal solution as I see it would be to announce the sessions before creating the schedule. Then, allow those who have bought their conference pass early to register their preferences for which of the announced sessions they would like most to attend.

From there, use this data to set constraints on the schedule you build: for example, if almost all of the attendees who said they would attend Session A have also indicated they wish to attend Session B, this would create a strong constraint to avoid a conflict between these two sessions in the schedule.

Easier said than done, I realise, but that’s how it would work for me in an ideal world.

Comment by Cam Pegg

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Personally, I'd love to see a beefier management/strategy track at WDS09. Working in a corporate environment, sessions about running your own freelance business don't really cut it when trying to justify the expense to one's boss.

Topics like search strategy (not SEO/SEM stuff, but more enterprise-related) and sessions around approaches to product management/development would be great. The workshop session on Engaging Social Media (http://roadshow09.webdirections.org/workshops#engaging-social-media) sounds like it would be a great model to follow. I'd also be interested in hearing about case studies around more micro-level concepts like product strategy as well as the macro strategy pieces.

I realise that for a lot of WDS's target demographic, this side of the program is never going to be as sexy as the technical stuff, but there aren't many conferences, etc around for those of us who work in the online management/strategy area, so a solid track would be invaluable.

Comment by Kevin Yank

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

This makes sense on the surface, but is a general conference like Web Directions even the right place for a session that would be tagged as "Hard"?

What about labels more along the lines of "For Beginners" vs. "For Experienced Practitioners"?

Comment by maxine

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Oh not all all Brett! I hadn't done any voting myself so I hadn't even noticed that vote accepted thing - it *is* annoying!

Comment by maxine

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Very topical :)

Comment by brett.morgan

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Ahh, cool. Sorry for being a pest. =)

Comment by Gary Barber

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Just some seating would be good besides the inhouse seats. Just some to fill the wall areas and have it removed after lunch. Tables I find would be a major restriction in people moving around.

Comment by maxine

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Unfortunately we weren't in a position to roll our own forum application.

I did a pretty rigorous examination of a whole bunch of options and chose Ideascale, which has lost of great features, and is nicely customisable.

I fully appreciate there are a whole bunch of glitches like this that I find really troublesome as well, but, beyond passing them on, there's sadly not a lot I can do about this one :(

Comment by Moin Zaman

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

A web app where attendees can login and post what they're interested in discussing or solving specific problems. Other attendees can browse through, search via tags etc. If they find anything interesting they could block out a 15 minute slot with the other person (ala meeting request) specifying where to meetup. This could be done prior to the conference and left open during it as well.

Comment by Kevin Yank

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

This would seem to make sense if there is demand, as long as it does not put upward pressure on the ticket price for those of us who would not use it.

Comment by Jason

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

This sounds like a fantastic idea!

Would it be feasable to use some of the smaller auditoriums with the seating re-arranged in a circle? Okay, there's no table, but it could work the same way.

Would each "virtual table" have a chairperson?

Comment by Jason

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I guess seating hundreds of people in that area could be a bit tricky - but this would be handy thing to introduce.

Even rows of benches would be a bonus, if individual seating would be too cramped.

Comment by susan.macgillivray

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Yes finding a sponsor would be great. I wouldn't mind a 'short black' wait.

Comment by susan.macgillivray

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

I agree here needs to be some seating, esp for those without such able bodies or that wear skirts!

Comment by maxine

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Paul this is a great idea! Thanks for pointing it out!

Comment by john

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

Gary,

great suggestion. It's definitely something we've wanted to do for a couple of years.

There are two non trivial challenges to this

1. unless it all goes smoothly, it's actually counter productive - people won't notice the great coffee, they'll notice the wait!
2. It is really really expensive. like really :-) So, we'd be (and are, and have been) looking for a sponsor who would like to provide this service (and use the opportunity as a way of engaging with their potential audience).

As a coffee addict, and snob, (and I'll speak for Maxine likewise here) wed love to have this. So, we'll do our best to make it happen.

Comment by maxine

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

We would consider this, though it means we'd need to come up with two topics (for both of the other two simultaneous tracks) that were both amenable to a two hour treatment.

Was the changeover really disruptive? I thought people appreciated the 5 minute break. Maybe another solution might actually be to encourage the moderator to have an official 5 minute break to happen at the same time as the between session breaks going on in the other tracks. Would hat have solved the problem?

Comment by openid

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

The javascript session - rocked. I would have put this up against other 2 hour sessions however so to reduce the change over etc half why through

Comment by john

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:00:00 PST

oh, you have no idea the challenges!